<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Compared to what?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/</link>
	<description>Expert Conversations on World Events</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:38:13 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: aposen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>aposen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-100</guid>
		<description>This thread is emphasizing too much global imbalances and macro/cyclical issues, and too little the structural.  Of course it is a win-win if growth elsewhere picks up when the US slows down.  That is why US administrations kept worrying about global demand flying on one engine, the US consumer.  But even if that fails to continue as smoothly as at present, that is not more than temporary dislocation.

The issue is as Nick E says relative to what.  As I have argued elsewhere, the EU is much more vulnerable to this financial contagion than anyplace else but the few emerging market basket cases that are well enough off to have some credit, but are not real surplus economies (eg Turkey, Thailand).  Europe has been growing faster than potential for years, had housing booms in some countries (Eire, UK, Spain, Greece, parts of Portugal and Italy) that ran up higher than in the US and involved greater shares of GDP in real estate, had fundamentally fragile banking systems in the semi-public sector (Germany, Belgium, Italy, and to a lesser degree France), and is more dependent upon bank lending for corporate finance without alternative channels.  Even though for these weeks those alternative credit channels are clogged globally, their existence was a real reason that the financial turmoil until now didn&#039;t overly harm the US real economy.

No one in their right mind would want to play Russia&#039;s hand.  The record for longevity of despots over natural resource based economies includes some lengthy stays, but does not include many cases of sustained growth or functioning.

But most of all, let&#039;s remember - as the very different Russia and Germany currently demonstrate, in line with long patterns in the data - an economy can run repeated current account surpluses and even fiscal surpluses, and still underperform on productivitiy, and still be vulnerable to crisis.  Those cyclical attributes are neither sufficient nor necessary to stability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread is emphasizing too much global imbalances and macro/cyclical issues, and too little the structural.  Of course it is a win-win if growth elsewhere picks up when the US slows down.  That is why US administrations kept worrying about global demand flying on one engine, the US consumer.  But even if that fails to continue as smoothly as at present, that is not more than temporary dislocation.</p>
<p>The issue is as Nick E says relative to what.  As I have argued elsewhere, the EU is much more vulnerable to this financial contagion than anyplace else but the few emerging market basket cases that are well enough off to have some credit, but are not real surplus economies (eg Turkey, Thailand).  Europe has been growing faster than potential for years, had housing booms in some countries (Eire, UK, Spain, Greece, parts of Portugal and Italy) that ran up higher than in the US and involved greater shares of GDP in real estate, had fundamentally fragile banking systems in the semi-public sector (Germany, Belgium, Italy, and to a lesser degree France), and is more dependent upon bank lending for corporate finance without alternative channels.  Even though for these weeks those alternative credit channels are clogged globally, their existence was a real reason that the financial turmoil until now didn&#8217;t overly harm the US real economy.</p>
<p>No one in their right mind would want to play Russia&#8217;s hand.  The record for longevity of despots over natural resource based economies includes some lengthy stays, but does not include many cases of sustained growth or functioning.</p>
<p>But most of all, let&#8217;s remember &#8211; as the very different Russia and Germany currently demonstrate, in line with long patterns in the data &#8211; an economy can run repeated current account surpluses and even fiscal surpluses, and still underperform on productivitiy, and still be vulnerable to crisis.  Those cyclical attributes are neither sufficient nor necessary to stability.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-30</guid>
		<description>I am not sure that the United States&#039; ability to create debt that may drag down European as well as US banks will do wonders for US power; it seems likely to introduce a new source of friction into the United States relationship with its traditional allies -- cutting into their combined global reach.

We shouldn&#039;t forget that Europe&#039;s growth over the past year helped support the US economy and indeed the global economy; Chinese exports to Europe now top Chinese exports to the US and have been growing more rapidly.  Until recently ongoing growth in Europe helped support the euro, and the euro&#039;s strength against the dollar and the resulting growth in US exports helps to explain how the US has, up until now, avoided (perhaps) an outright recession.  Power is a relative concept, but in this case I would accept a (temporary) fall in the United States relative economic and financial prestige in exchange for ongoing strength in Europe that helped maintain global demand for US exports while the US repairs its financial system.   Just as US weakness reverberated to Europe, Europe&#039;s weaknesses will reverberate back to the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure that the United States&#8217; ability to create debt that may drag down European as well as US banks will do wonders for US power; it seems likely to introduce a new source of friction into the United States relationship with its traditional allies &#8212; cutting into their combined global reach.</p>
<p>We shouldn&#8217;t forget that Europe&#8217;s growth over the past year helped support the US economy and indeed the global economy; Chinese exports to Europe now top Chinese exports to the US and have been growing more rapidly.  Until recently ongoing growth in Europe helped support the euro, and the euro&#8217;s strength against the dollar and the resulting growth in US exports helps to explain how the US has, up until now, avoided (perhaps) an outright recession.  Power is a relative concept, but in this case I would accept a (temporary) fall in the United States relative economic and financial prestige in exchange for ongoing strength in Europe that helped maintain global demand for US exports while the US repairs its financial system.   Just as US weakness reverberated to Europe, Europe&#8217;s weaknesses will reverberate back to the US.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sebastian Mallaby, Director, Center for Geoeconomic Studies</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>Sebastian Mallaby, Director, Center for Geoeconomic Studies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 19:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-29</guid>
		<description>When I kicked off this Forum last week, the world looked very different. The United States had yet to experience Meltdown Monday—the shock rejection of the Paulson plan. It had yet to experience False-Dawn Friday—when Congress wheeled around and passed the plan but the stockmarket fell anyway. Meanwhile in Europe, several major bank have been bailed out and the Irish government has completely lost its nerve, guaranteeing every credit to its banking system. (It is said that the Irish are guaranteeing loans equal to twice the country’s GDP; the equivalent in the United States would be a $28 trillion program.) India’s authorities have had to prop up the country’s second largest bank. Things are, shall we say, interesting. 

Events reinforced last week’s comments arguing that  the American era is a long way from being over. (Supporting Nick Eberstadt, similar sentiments were expressed by Joe Nye, Brink Lindsey, Desmond Lachman, and Roger Kubarych.) To be sure, the US faces huge difficulties ahead, not least because the real economy seems to be slowing rapidly,  judging both from the stockmarket’s Friday slide and from that the weak jobs report. But in the end the US political system delivered a bold policy response in short order; and it’s a pretty fair bet that more will follow, perhaps starting with  budgetary support to cash-strapped state governments. In Europe, by contrast, the authorities are struggling to muster a coordinated response. The French proposed a Euro-version of the Paulson plan, the Germans stomped on it, and the French unproposed it. Meanwhile the British are furious with the Irish over their blanket deposit guarantee, which threatens to create a run on non-Irish banks as deposits flow into the protective embrace of the Dublin government. In Friday’s FT, Stefan Jacoby,  the head of VW, was quoted saying that a recession in Europe will last longer than in the US because the policy response will be more sluggish.

So it’s been a good week for US power, at least relative to Europe. Not long ago Europeans were sounding smug that American hyper-finance had suffered a come-uppance; now European banks look at least as weak as American ones. Recent work by Kristin Forbes of MIT (hat tip: The Economist) confirms that foreigners’ hold savings in dollars largely because of the deepness and perceived safety of US markets; if US finance seemed shakier than its European rival, this would have consequences for the dollar’s status as a reserve currency, since the euro is the dollar’s obvious rival. But as Brad Setser notes in his Forum comment last week,  more dollars are being held as central bank reserves than ever before. If European finance is about to go through a prolonged crisis, the appetite for dollars is likely to be resilient. 

 US power relative to Asia is a different question. Desmond Lachman points out that Asia’s export-focused model may be vulnerable to a stagnation in global demand. According to MacQuarie Research, Asia’s exports (direct and indirect) to the US and the EU are equivalent to 33% of GDP, up from just 19% in 1994. Asia’s exports grew by more than a fifth in the year to July, and the same was true even if you exclude China; if that robust growth turns into a decline, Asia is bound to suffer. Moreover, Asia is not immune to a global credit crunch: MacQuarie reports that G-3 bank lending to Asia has doubled since 2004 to US$1.7 trillion. Nevertheless, some forecasters continue to insist that Asia will come through fine. The Asian Development Bank, for example, expects Asian growth to slow from 9 percent in 2007 to 7.5 percent this year and 7.2 percent next year—a cooling, certainly, but hardly a calamity. Is that too rosy? Do these Asia-wide numbers obscure trends that matter to US power? It can hardly be good news, for example, that China remains the most robust Asian economy while US allies in Japan and India are facing more trouble. Japan is on the verge of a recession. And India  is expected to slow sharply, partly because its software and back-office service exporters are exposed to a contraction in the financial sectors of New York and London. 

There is doubtless more to say about the United States relative to Europe or Asia. I’d be interested in comments on how ministers at this week’s IMF-Bank meetings should be responding to the crisis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I kicked off this Forum last week, the world looked very different. The United States had yet to experience Meltdown Monday—the shock rejection of the Paulson plan. It had yet to experience False-Dawn Friday—when Congress wheeled around and passed the plan but the stockmarket fell anyway. Meanwhile in Europe, several major bank have been bailed out and the Irish government has completely lost its nerve, guaranteeing every credit to its banking system. (It is said that the Irish are guaranteeing loans equal to twice the country’s GDP; the equivalent in the United States would be a $28 trillion program.) India’s authorities have had to prop up the country’s second largest bank. Things are, shall we say, interesting. </p>
<p>Events reinforced last week’s comments arguing that  the American era is a long way from being over. (Supporting Nick Eberstadt, similar sentiments were expressed by Joe Nye, Brink Lindsey, Desmond Lachman, and Roger Kubarych.) To be sure, the US faces huge difficulties ahead, not least because the real economy seems to be slowing rapidly,  judging both from the stockmarket’s Friday slide and from that the weak jobs report. But in the end the US political system delivered a bold policy response in short order; and it’s a pretty fair bet that more will follow, perhaps starting with  budgetary support to cash-strapped state governments. In Europe, by contrast, the authorities are struggling to muster a coordinated response. The French proposed a Euro-version of the Paulson plan, the Germans stomped on it, and the French unproposed it. Meanwhile the British are furious with the Irish over their blanket deposit guarantee, which threatens to create a run on non-Irish banks as deposits flow into the protective embrace of the Dublin government. In Friday’s FT, Stefan Jacoby,  the head of VW, was quoted saying that a recession in Europe will last longer than in the US because the policy response will be more sluggish.</p>
<p>So it’s been a good week for US power, at least relative to Europe. Not long ago Europeans were sounding smug that American hyper-finance had suffered a come-uppance; now European banks look at least as weak as American ones. Recent work by Kristin Forbes of MIT (hat tip: The Economist) confirms that foreigners’ hold savings in dollars largely because of the deepness and perceived safety of US markets; if US finance seemed shakier than its European rival, this would have consequences for the dollar’s status as a reserve currency, since the euro is the dollar’s obvious rival. But as Brad Setser notes in his Forum comment last week,  more dollars are being held as central bank reserves than ever before. If European finance is about to go through a prolonged crisis, the appetite for dollars is likely to be resilient. </p>
<p> US power relative to Asia is a different question. Desmond Lachman points out that Asia’s export-focused model may be vulnerable to a stagnation in global demand. According to MacQuarie Research, Asia’s exports (direct and indirect) to the US and the EU are equivalent to 33% of GDP, up from just 19% in 1994. Asia’s exports grew by more than a fifth in the year to July, and the same was true even if you exclude China; if that robust growth turns into a decline, Asia is bound to suffer. Moreover, Asia is not immune to a global credit crunch: MacQuarie reports that G-3 bank lending to Asia has doubled since 2004 to US$1.7 trillion. Nevertheless, some forecasters continue to insist that Asia will come through fine. The Asian Development Bank, for example, expects Asian growth to slow from 9 percent in 2007 to 7.5 percent this year and 7.2 percent next year—a cooling, certainly, but hardly a calamity. Is that too rosy? Do these Asia-wide numbers obscure trends that matter to US power? It can hardly be good news, for example, that China remains the most robust Asian economy while US allies in Japan and India are facing more trouble. Japan is on the verge of a recession. And India  is expected to slow sharply, partly because its software and back-office service exporters are exposed to a contraction in the financial sectors of New York and London. </p>
<p>There is doubtless more to say about the United States relative to Europe or Asia. I’d be interested in comments on how ministers at this week’s IMF-Bank meetings should be responding to the crisis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brad W. Setser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad W. Setser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 19:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/forum/2008/10/04/compared-to-what/#comment-28</guid>
		<description>Neither the United States&#039; economic strengths nor its vulnerabilities should be ignored.   The US has a larger current account deficit while China, Japan, the Gulf and Russia all have surpluses.   The EU&#039;s external deficit is smaller than the United States deficit as well.  That doesn&#039;t imply that I would want to swap positions, but it does suggest that the US has an economic and financial vulnerability that they do not (currently) have -- particularly in a context where private demand for US financial assets has been diminished for rather obvious reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither the United States&#8217; economic strengths nor its vulnerabilities should be ignored.   The US has a larger current account deficit while China, Japan, the Gulf and Russia all have surpluses.   The EU&#8217;s external deficit is smaller than the United States deficit as well.  That doesn&#8217;t imply that I would want to swap positions, but it does suggest that the US has an economic and financial vulnerability that they do not (currently) have &#8212; particularly in a context where private demand for US financial assets has been diminished for rather obvious reasons.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
