Tyler Cowen apparently did not read my China testimony! The RMB’s value does influence trade flows

by Brad Setser
September 7, 2006

The New York Times’ conservative columnists certainly know how to get my blood boiling.  David Brooks, among other things, apparently thinks the key to a hedge fund salary is good people skills – not a few lessons from Steve Hsu

And Tyler Cowen apparently thinks the Chinese RMB is not undervalued.   And that it wouldn’t matter much if it was, since the value of the RMB has no impact on trade.   

I dealt with both arguments in my testimony.    Neither, in my view, stands serious scrutiny.

Does the value of the RMB have an impact on the pace of Chinese export growth?

The best data says yes. 

Goldman found that a 1% appreciation of the RMB would slow Chinese export growth by about 1.5%, if not more (a 1% depreciation would raise Chinese export growth by the same amount).   I can put Dr. Cowen in touch with the Goldman folks if he wants to see their methodology.

Jaime Marquez and John Schindler of the Federal Reserve Board found that the value of the RMB has an impact on the global market share of China’s exports.  The fact that China imports to export, in turn, explains why moves in the RMB have little impact on Chinese imports. 

Jeffrey Frankel, Menzie Chinn, Yin-Wong Cheung and Eiji Fujii and Binky Chadha of Deutsche Bank have all looked at the relationship between China’s nominal exchange rate and its purchasing power exchange rate.   One might expect, given China’s state of development, for that ratio to be something like 2:1.    But it is more like 4:1.    Prices in China are extremely low – in dollar terms — relative to what one would expect in countries at a similar state of development.

Finally, we have a natural experiment.  The RMB has been stable against the dollar.  The dollar hasn’t been stable against the euro.   The RMB rose against the euro from 1999 to early 2002, and then fell.   There are lots of graphs in my testimony.   

Guest what, Chinese exports to Europe took off AFTER the RMB fell against the euro.  Chinese exports to Europe have been growing faster than Chinese exports to the US for the past several years.   Care to guess why?

Would the US import less from China is the RMB rose in value? 

In the short-run, no.  The US would just pay more for Chinese goods.   Dr. Cowen has that part right.

But China doesn’t plan to remain just an electronics assembler and textile exporter either.   Right now, there are strong incentives for auto parts manufacturing and electronic components production to migrate to China.    I have no problem with China moving up the value-added chain.  But that usually goes along with a real appreciation (see Korea, Japan).   That real appreciation brings the fast growing country’s price structure in line with global levels, and creates incentives for low-end manufacturing to move out.  China right now is competitive with Bangladesh and Africa in low-end textiles even as it is gearing up to compete in the global auto market … 

RMB appreciation therefore is necessary to keep the US bilateral trade deficit from growing more rapidly over time.  

Dr. Cowen’s analysis is static, not dynamic.  A one time increase in import prices is needed to slow the rate of increase in US imports from China (and China’s pace of reserve accumulation). 

Incidentally, if the dollar falls over time – as one would expect – RMB appreciation against the dollar is also necessary to keep the RMB from continuing to depreciate against the world.

What about the argument that the RMB is really overvalued, since if China ever eased its capital controls, tons and tons of money would want to flee China? 

Well, it is true that we don’t know what would happen if China eased capital controls.  And China certainly should do more to clean up its banks before it liberalizes its capital account.  I agree with Dr. Cowen there.

But does the “massive capital flight argument would push the value of the RMB down argument” hold water? 

Not in my view. 

Four points.

First, right now, far more money is trying to get into China than to get out, despite China’s bad banks and interest rate differentials that favor the dollar over the RMB.  China’s government is trying to discourage inflows and encourage (controlled) outflows.  That tells me something. 

Second, so long as China’s government stands behind its bad banks, there is no real risk associated with holding a RMB deposit in a major state bank.   Chinese taxpayers, not Chinese depositors, should worry about the costs of all the bad loans that China’s banks are likely making.

Plus, many of the bad loans of the big state banks have been shifted off their books and on to the books of China’s asset management companies – that is one reason why American  and European bankers (with good people skills) are taking stakes in the big Chinese banks (They also hope to use their people skills to get investment banking business).   

Third, the capital controls work both ways.   US investors are underweight Chinese assets, just as Chinese investors (really depositors) are over-weight Chinese assets.  I would love to be able to buy interest paying RMB denominated government bonds.  I cannot.  I suspect there are a few folks with good people skills (hedge fund managers and those working on the prop desks of the I-banks) who wouldn’t mind adding a few interest-paying RMB assets to their portfolio … .

Finally, while we don’t know what would happen if China lifted its controls (something it isn’t going to do), we do know that China is going to run a $200b (maybe more) current account surplus this year, and that is probably will attract $50b in net FDI flows. 

That means a net inflow of China from the basic balance of payments of $250b, or around 10% of China’s GDP. 

That implies that there needs to be a $250b capital outflows from the banking system to keep the RMB from appreciating.   $200b wouldn’t cut it. 

And since those big surpluses are forecast to last for some time, that kind of outflow would have to be sustained.  If the $250b capital outflow only happens once, the RMB would appreciate the next year.

Argentina experienced a 10% of GDP capital outflow in 2001.    Turkey did as well.   That was the year when both experienced enormous crises. 

Basically, if you look at China’s balance of payments data, in order to believe the RMB is undervalued, you need to believe that China is set to experience an Argentine style crisis – not just next year, but for the next several years. 

There is a legitimate debate on whether the China’s de facto peg to the dollar is good for the US (it cuts both ways, helping parts of the US economy and hurting others), is good for China (also cuts both ways) and is good for the world economy.  I tend to side with Andy Mukherjee.   

But I honestly don’t see how anyone who has looked at China’s trade with Europe can argue that the value of the RMB has no impact on trade flows.   China's broad real exchange rate hasn't been stable over the past ten years.  I know many American economists think of Europe as nothing more than a vacation spot, but in this case, it provides a natural test.

 

Update: RMB politics makes for strange bedfellows.   Greg Mankiw is closer to Tyler Cowen than to Tim Adams.    And conversely, on this, I suspect I am closer to Tim Adams …  

Dr. Cowen argues (very politely) that I misstated his argument.  He doesn’t argue that changes in the RMB have no impact on trade flows, only that the benefits of pushing China to change its peg are too small – indeed, probably negative (“yuan revaluation is unlikely to benefit the United States”) – to be worth the effort. 

My read of his article was that its goal was to throw cold water on the notion that RMB revaluation would help bring the US economy – and the global economy – into better balance.  The basic thrust of the article was that – to quote Dr. Cowen that “the trade effects of the revaluation of the yuan are unlikely to be large,” that the evidence that the yuan is undervalued is rather weak (a “market-determined value of the yuan might well be lower than today’s exchange rate”), and that “most of the growth in Chinese exports has come from switching manufacturing and assembly from other more expensive Asian countries” so it basically is a net gain to the US (cheaper imports of goods the US already would import.   

On those points, I do disagree.  

I think the RMB’s real depreciation is a big reason for China’s big current export boom (Chinese exports to the world are growing faster than its exports to the US), that the trade effects of a significant real appreciation in the yuan would likely be significant,  that the huge surplus in China’s basic balance suggests that there is a lot of pressure for RMB appreciation barring capital flight on an absolutely enormous scale and finally, while it is true that “most” Chinese export growth has come from a shift within Asia, increasingly, Chinese export growth is coming from a shift in production to Asia, not just from a shift in production in Asia.  

Overall US imports from Asia have been rising as a share of US GDP. (Data here)

Dr. Cowen notes that any major shift in the RMB poses real challenges – as the costs (higher import prices) kick in more rapidly than the benefits (an increase in US exports – and I agree with Dr. Cowen that the impact here would be modest).    That is true.   Shifting the basis of US growth away from its current trajectory toward a trajectory based on increasing exports (to close the trade gap) won’t necessarily be easy, or painless. 

But that is one of the reasons why China needs to change.   If the US is going to grow out of its trade deficit by growing its exports, the dollar almost certainly needs to fall further.  So long as China pegs to the dollar, that means China will also depreciate v. the world.  And that is the last thing Chinaneeds.  One of the reasons — in my view — why the dollar's depreciation v. the euro didn't have a bigger impact on the US trade balance is that it had such a big impact on China's trade balance.

Dr. Cowen thinks the US has too high a propensity to spend.  I agree.   But that propensity to spend is partially a function of China’s propensity to lend, so to speak. 

I consequently think Dr. Cowen set aside the long-term costs of US dependence on a Chinese (financial) subsidy – something Dr. DeLong ably highlights.   The interest-sensitive sectors of the US economy have benefited from Chinese purchases of US debt.   No one disagrees to my knowledge.  But I like Dr. DeLong, I worry about the long-term impact this has on the composition of US output (too much investment in homes, too little in other sectors) and the risk that at some point, China may take the subsidy away. 

Realistically, the risk may be less that China will stop subsidizing the interest-sensitive sectors of the US than that China may prove unwilling to increase the subsidy in now provides interest-sensitive sectors in the US should a change in global conditions increase the cost of providing that subsidy.

As Dr. Cowen notes, China has been far more willing to finance the US than I expected two years ago.  But I would expect at some point there will be a limit to even China's capacity to absorb massive reserve increases.  China has managed $250b.  But in some scenarios, it might need to do $400b.  Would it? 

 

Post a Comment35 Comments

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    The Washington Consensus bureaucrats are obviously concerned about the US trade deficit with the World. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson will visit China this month, to demand the Chinese allow their currency, the yuan or renminbi, to rise in value on world markets to make US exports more competitive. It isn’t going to work. There is very little wealth producing Industrial capacity left in the United States. Besides Beef and Boeing jets, what does the US still manufacture that can be exported to China or Japan? It maybe politically correct to blame the Chinese for everything, but shouldn’t America’s lack of Industrial policy also be examined. And why are economic decisions in Washington always made to exclusively benefit the narrow economic interests of Wall Street insiders (ie. former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin’s decision to massively overvalue the US dollar that has decimated the US manufacturing sector during the Clinton Administration).

  • Posted by Emmanuel

    First, right now, far more money is trying to get into China than to get out, despite China’s bad banks and interest rate differentials that favor the dollar over the RMB. China’s government is trying to discourage inflows and encourage (controlled) outflows. That tells me something.

    But what proportion of the money trying to get into China is speculating on RMB appreciation in the not-so-distant future? Answering this question alone could silence much of the “exchange rates don’t matter” crowd.

  • Posted by Guest

    See http://www.marginalrevolution.com for a response to this…
    Tyler

  • Posted by ABC

    Hi Brad

    If i could go slightly off topic, but still stay relevant, could I ask what you or any of your guests think about the likelihood of a large depreciation of the yen, and if so, what would the implications of that be for China more specifically, but for others generally also? Is that one to look out for?

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    Hi ABC,

    The Central Bank of Japan de facto manages the currency exchange rate of the Japanese yen. With the Chinese RMB to gradually revalue over the coming year by around 3 percent, I would expect the Japanese yen to also remain in a tight trading range with the US dollar. Besides most of the political pressure in Washington has been directed toward the Chinese. Given Japan’s status as a strategic military ally with the United States, we can certainly expect that the Japanese will be given a free pass to maintain the current exchange rate regime from the Bush Administration despite the rising Japanese trade surplus.

    Regards,

  • Posted by ABC

    Dave Chiang

    I’m inclined to disagree, a strengthening of the yen and an end to the yen carry trade was in sight when everyone thought that the ZIRP was coming to an end. With the realisation that interest rates were not going to rise, the carry trade began again, and the yen has seen significant depreciation. It appears to be at a break point, either the BoJ increases rates and supports the Yen or it will decline towards an historical low, with all that that entails. At least that’s my reading of the situation. I stand to be corrected.

  • Posted by bsetser

    ABC — the yen is weak v. the dollar and very weak v. the euro (something I discussed over labor day). I do think there is a risk that it could appreciate significantly. Indeed, yen appreciation almost has to be part of the global adjustment process. But right now, expectations that interest rates in Japan will remain low — and Japanese households rising appetite for risk — seems to be supporting the global carry trade (and that carry trade keeps the yen weak by moving Japan’s current account surplus into global markets).

    Finally, as Dave Chiang notes, there is a widespread expectation in the market that at some point, Japan would resume intervention to keep the yen from rising too much.

  • Posted by OldVet

    Most of the money invested in China is fixed, or direct investment, rather than short term money. Most is in manufacturing. Only a fall in prices or a blockage of the products from sale would cause fixed investment to relocate, given great labor cost advantages of China over Europe or the US. Even a 30% rise in the value of the Renminbi would not overcome the labor cost advantages. Absent some other compelling change in the world economy, exchange rate variations won’t cause a massive outflow of capital from China, IMHO.

    Revolution might cause it. Or the serious entry of India into manufacturing, which is unlikely in the short run. Or some sort of sharp spike in crude oil prices which draws off huge sums to the Middle East. Tightening down on trade until intellectual property rights of foreigners is respected wouln’t generate enough outflow to change much. An exchange rate change of significance for China has no natural causal factor at the moment. China’s just following the Japanese blueprint.

  • Posted by bsetser

    Not quite the Japanese blueprint — i don’t Japan’s exports ever tripled in four-five years, as China’s exports are now doing. And since Japanese inflation rates were above US rates (and most XRs were pegged) in bretton woods 1, the yen tended to appreciate in real terms (both v. the $ and v. all of Japan’s trading partners). over the past five years, the RMB is basically flat v. the $ in real terms (despite a phenomenal surge in labor productivity in the manufacturing sector) and has depreciated on a broad basis.

  • Posted by Cassandra

    Brad

    Why should one believe that Chinese producers will behave any differently than the Japanese did mid 90s when the Yen markedly appreciated? Recall that manufacturers ate most of the depreciation rather than raise dollar prices and see hard-fought market share whither. Even after grueling apppreciation, they were willing to produce and sell at an operating loss in order to keep employees employed, suppliers above water, and interest on bank loans flowing. I bought a Fuji Heavy car in 1993 – the year they lost a couple of billion USD – as I figured they PAID me $2000 relative to their cost. Over time, they met the challenge with leaner manufacturing process, improved logistics, pared-down workforces through attrition rather than sacking, lower employee bonuses, along with natural hollowing and outsourcing. While painful for “capital” in Japan, in the longer-run we probably did Japan a huge competitive favour by turning the screws as we did.

    With the Chinese state at least as interventionist, should we not expect the same from RMB appreciation for at least the first several several years ?? I say this NOT to suggest the RMB shouldn’t appreciate (it should, as should the Yen), but so that we can implement adjacent plans B, C, D & E, be they domestic initiatives or more overtly managing trade. How does an a nation with little in the way of a defined public interest compete against neo-mercantilists with commmercial & financial policies coordinated to ostensibly maximize their long-term public interest?

    http://nihoncassandra.blogspot.com/

  • Posted by Alex

    “There is a legitimate debate on whether the China’s de facto peg to the dollar is good for the US (it cuts both ways, helping parts of the US economy and hurting others), is good for China (also cuts both ways) and is good for the world economy ”

    In the long run the current system is clearly unsustainable. But then again so is shooting heroin all the time. But as anyone who has tried to quit a nasty habit knows there are consequneces associated with going cold turkey.

    So the question for you Brad is what happens if the world’s economy goes “cold turkey” ? Isn’t there also a cost associated with that?

    “If the US is going to grow out of its trade deficit by growing its exports, the dollar almost certainly needs to fall further.”

    So many commodities and so much trade in the world is dollar denomiated nowadays ,look at crude oil futures. So what happens to all those dollar stakeholders if the dollar were to revalued more realistically? Do they hold on they try to get out? Either way its a terrible choice. Hold on and watch your dollars lose value or try to make your wait the door before everyone else does?

    “As Dr. Cowen notes, China has been far more willing to finance the US than I expected two years ago. But I would expect at some point there will be a limit to even China’s capacity to absorb massive reserve increases. China has managed $250b. But in some scenarios, it might need to do $400b. Would it? ”

    Its strange but I’m listening to the U-2 song “Sometimes you can’t make it on your own.” In your testimony you said that China only accounts for part of the $900 billion dollar financing for America’s trade deficit. If that’s the case now it would imply that a number of key players need to keep the whole system.

    So the real question is this: will everyone play nice to keep the system going? I think that depends on how large the US trade and budget deficits expand. So a more precise and useful variant of this question would be this: will the US trade deficit expand infinitely? Is there are any infinite appetite for US backed securities? If it doersn’t expand infinitely what’s the factor that limits its growth? Find the limit and you find the answer to your question.

  • Posted by DOR

    “interest-paying RMB assets”
    Gee, it almost sounds like a real financial instrument!

    Seriously, subtracting taxes and inflation from Rmb interest payments drives the real return so close to zero that there isn’t much difference. Below zero in some months. Factor in the lost opportunity on Euro, Yen or Dollar investments, please.

    “Basically, if you look at China’s balance of payments data, in order to believe the RMB is undervalued, you need to believe that China is set to experience an Argentine style crisis – not just next year, but for the next several years. ”

    Or, that the BoP data are inaccurate, or some combination of the two (inaccurate data and a pending crisis). It should also be noted that there is a bit of a difference between China’s foreign debt position and that of Argentine.

    * * *

    Clearly, there are American losers from trade with China.

    They might be calculated as that share of the population who lost jobs due to imports from China that were made in factories without foreign investment. I ran some numbers (posted in comments at DeLong’s blog) and came up with about 150,000 people out of 299.45 million.

    A high estimate, since I didn’t net out the effect of those who got jobs producing US exports to China.

    .

  • Posted by Movie Guy

    Brad,

    A solid post. You are correct.

  • Posted by Movie Guy

    DOR,

    I like you, but you have me laughing outloud.

    Care to share your details?

  • Posted by bigdog

    Don’t get so worked up about the journalists. Like politicians, analyzing and objectively presenting the facts is not normally in their job description.

  • Posted by MrBill

    “”BEIJING, Sept 7 (Reuters) – It would cost China about $136 billion, close to 7 percent of GDP, to clean up all the pollution pumped out in the country just in 2004, the national environmental protection watchdog said on Thursday.
    A one-off, direct investment to clean up all the pollution for that year would cost 1.08 trillion yuan ($135.9 billion), with most of that being put towards water pollution, according to the report on the State Environmental Protection Administration’s Web site (www.zhb.gov.cn).”"

    Well, at least we know what China could do with some of its current account surplus if they wished? ; – )

  • Posted by Guest

    RE:”at least we know what China could do with some of its current account surplus if they wished?”

    Assume that at some point they will not have a choice. I’m wondering how long it will be before the markets start putting a value on a nation’s access to, or capacities to produce potable water reserves.

    “…Industry data shows that regional demand for desalinated water is growing at an annual average of 6%, double the global average, and regional governments have already invested an estimated 10 billion in existing and new projects to boost capacity,’ added Woodbridge. ‘But with a surging population and large-scale economic diversification across the Gulf, a further investment of around $100 billion is required over the next 10 years to meet the rapidly escalating demand for water…”
    http://www.ameinfo.com/95533.html

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    If anyone has any doubts that the Chinese RMB will NOT significantly appreciate on world markets, the Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao flatly states there will NOT be a significant revaluation of the Chinese yuan. Period.
    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HI09Cb01.html

    ” China should allow for currency flexibility but “firmly avoid appreciation of the yuan”, Wang Xiaogang, a senior researcher with the National Development and Reform Commission, the country’s top policymaking body, said this week.

    “Given that industrialization is not yet finished, and especially that our capital and technology-intensive industries are not competitive on the international markets yet, either gradual or rapid appreciation will add to uncertainty to the macroeconomic environment and hurt the competitiveness of Chinese industries,” Wang commented in the official Shanghai Securities News.

    Defending his country’s currency record, Premier Wen Jiabao said this week that the pace of the reforms would be set by Beijing. “We will continue to deepen reforms of the renminbi [yuan] exchange-rate mechanism, but there will be no more ‘surprise adjustments’,” Wen told foreign media ahead of his upcoming visits to three European countries.

    The Chinese government is worried that allowing the yuan to appreciate too rapidly could risk the stability of the domestic economy, especially the large export-oriented sector, creating more unemployment and increasing social unrest. ”

    - Asia Times

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    Off topic comment, today’s New York Times article details Robert Rubin’s close association with Hedge Fund speculators in formulation of national economic policies that exclusively benefit the narrow economic interests of Wall Street insiders. Speculative Hedge Fund capital has been given full rein over both the US Economy and long term strategic investors. Today’s capital markets are completely dominated by Hedge Fund speculators with heavyweight political backing by Robert Rubin and other former Clinton Administration officials. With Hedge Fund asset stripping of corporate assets, the US Economy continues its plunge into rapid deindustrialization and disintegration.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/08/business/08wall.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin

  • Posted by MrBill

    “”The New York Times’ conservative columnists certainly know how to get my blood boiling”"

    Conservative New York Times columnist sounds like an oxymoron to me? ; – )

  • Posted by Anonymous

    DaveChiang

    Why do you bear such personal animosity towards Mr Rubin?

    The more unusual and alarming trend is that the new breed of apparently “self-made” successful speculators (Kovner, Singer, Gilder, Tudor, Moore, Trout, Steinhardt) are some of the biggest supporters of partisan politics through AEI (American Enterprise Institute), the Manhattan Institute, the Hoover Insitute etc. One might expect this from the heartland industrialists like the Coors or the Kochs, but historically many (particularly Jewish) financiers Bernard Baruch, Soros, Levy, have been political supporters of a more broadly defined sense of public interest in comparison to the much coarser Randian agendas of the new money-men. Rubin by contrast sits between these two groups, having worked with the more selfish ones in the private sector which was seemingly contrary to his political core as related by almost everyone who knows him.

    There is nothing you have posted or written that provides evidence to support your apparent and unsubstantiated personal vendetta.

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    To Anonymous,

    What I totally dispise about Robert Rubin and the entire former Clinton Administration is the arrogance, dishonesty, corruption, lies, and the endemic nepotism. Not to mention Robert Rubin’s personal role in the Enron fiasco, I think most Americans would agree on the necessary requirement for clean and honest government. What the American people found intolerable was the New York based newsmedia essentially providing a free pass to the Clinton Administration’s illicit conduct on both domestic and foreign affairs.

    On a personal note, Robert Rubin owes an apology to the people of Indonesia for his duplicity during the Asian Economic crisis during his term of office. In large part, the blowback by the Islamic world against the United States stems from the role of Wall Street hedge funds raping the financial assets of millions of muslim families across Southeast Asia. A moral and financial debt by the Clinton Administration is owed to the muslim and chinese communities across the world.

    Regards,

  • Posted by bsetser

    Dave Chiang — whoah. Maybe some of the blame for Indonesia’s crisis should go to the corrupt suharto regime … Should the US have bailed it out, unchanged?

    Indonesia’s bailout didn’t work. In early 98 there was terrible violence against the Chinese minority. Rubin knows that. Read his memoirs. But you might want to present the real choices a bit more honestly.

    Hedge funds were betting v. the Thai baht (and shorting the Hang Seng), but they weren’t the big players in Indonesia. The pressure on the rupiah came from Indoneisan firms with unhedged dollar liabilities that wanted to hedge (and most firms = suharto cronies) and from Indonesia’s elite, which progressively pulled funds from the local banks and shifted their assets to Singapore.

  • Posted by bsetser

    DOR, for an offshore investor, domestic inflation doesn’t matter — the real return is a function of the nominal interest rate + the currency change. that should be compared to the return associated with holding another currency. NDFs don’t pay interest. i would much rather have a RMB sterilization bill … I would take 2-3% nominal and the expected appreciation over the short-term interest payments on either dollars or euros right now …

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    Hi Brad,

    The Japanese government was more than willing to finance a recovery and stabilization of the Indonesian economy; it would not have costed the US taxpayer one cent. Why would Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin block the Japanese government effort? If the Indonesian government was so totally corrupt, why would the Japanese government be willing to lend billions of taxpayer yen? Japanese led regional integration efforts for a Asian monetary fund were repeatedly siderailed by the US Treasury controlled IMF and World Bank. For his duplicity during the Indonesian economic crisis, Robert Rubin was nicknamed “the bandit” by the Japanese Ministry of Finance. After Vice President Al Gore assailed Asian regional efforts to contain the crisis, the Japanese Foreign Ministry condemned the Clinton Administation at an APEC news conference stating that the “US was possessed by an Evil Spirit”.

    Regards,

  • Posted by OldVet

    Brad, you’re right about Japan’s situation being different than China’s, and not a strict blueprint for China. I meant that export employment to stimulate the economy was Japan’s tactic, and it worked; as it is working in China. The political/social necessity of finding hundreds of millions of jobs seems to be a driving goal for China, and one which dictates they keep the RMB as weak as possible – regardless of other economic consequences. If the Party loses power, they won’t care what happens to the economy. Sort of like the Bush administration with its wild borrowing and spending.

  • Posted by Guest

    What does the euphemism “good people skills” really mean?

  • Posted by bsetser

    “good people skills” = snide reference to David Brooks’ argument that “across many nations, the market increasingly rewards people with high social and customer-service skills” hence there is a need to help people het the “intangible skills that the economy rewards” as those “intangible skills” are what accounts for rising inequality among the highly educated.

    I know a few hedge fund types who are a little challenged socially, so that argument didn’t ring true to me.

    Dave Chiang — Nothing kept the Japanese government from lending bilaterally outside the context of an IMF program if they wanted to. And i wouldn’t hinge your argument on a debate on Indonesia’s level of corruption. trust me: suharto’s regime has corrupt. You can argue that shouldn’t matter, but it was a prime example of crony capitalism.

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    Hi Brad,

    If you ask Professor Chalmers Johnson of the Japan Policy Research Institute, the crony capitalism in Asia compares nothing to the Clinton Wall Street-Treasury complex. After Long Term capital lost heaviliy in futures options attacking the Hong Kong dollar peg, the Federal Reserve and US Treasury department moved quickly to arrange a taxpayer bailout of the Hedge Fund’s losing positions. With the Hong Kong dollar peg defended by the Hong Kong monetary authority and the People’s Bank of China, Long Term capital choose the wrong target. Unfortunately Brad, I don’t have the luxury of a taxpayer bailout of my personal financial losses under the guise of “protecting the US banking system”. I wonder how much money Long Term capital contributed to the Clinton Administration political campaign fund.

    Regards,

  • Posted by Cassandra

    Chiang said:
    “After Long Term capital lost heaviliy in futures options attacking the Hong Kong dollar peg, the Federal Reserve and US Treasury department moved quickly to arrange a taxpayer bailout of the Hedge Fund’s losing position”

    This is delusionary and utter fabrication. There was no “bailout” to LTCM investors. They recovered nothing. The positions were “unwound”, with assistance (temporary liquidty) for the sake of orderliness, but not at the people’s “expense” per se. What the Fed oversaw was a managed unwind to avoid creating further financial system dislocation that might result from either cross-default, or a margin cascade that would essentially be a repeat of Herstatt. The systemic risk was real, and to claim otherwise is revisionism of the most deceitful kind.

    What most people do not understand is that, irrespective of whatever duff bets were made in the LTCM portfolio (vol, bets, pair-trades, Yen carry-trades-gone-awry) detailed by Lowenstein, is that it is likely that most of the portfolio “was sound” and the “buy & hold” portfolio of LTCM prior to the liquidation was not in principal “wrong” (though the amount of leverage applied in hindsight was). Rather than being bailed out by Rubin, Goldman & the Street (as Chiang suggests) it would be more correct to say LTCM was gunned down by the market (and likely by Goldman themsevles as Lowenstein detailed). Thus, very near the juiciest point where their trades and their spreads where as pregnant as they could be, they were contractually forced to hand the keys (positions) over The Street, lock stock and barrel. For Goldman (and LTCMs other lenders, this was like watching an old lady shovel bucketfulls of money into a slot machine with a defined payout ratio, and seeing her run out of money before it could pay the jackpot, before depositing the coins that hit the jackpot. There were no heroes here, but to vilify Geithner, the Fed, Rubin or the traders (Rogers, Volstadt) who oversaw the unwind with integrity is just wrong.

    Apologies to all for this straying OT, but I just couldn’t let davechiangs fantasies pass unrebutted.

    http://nihoncassandra.blogspot.com/

  • Posted by bsetser

    Cassandra — agreed.

    Dave Chiang also misses out on another key point: post-LTCM, Rubin was the leading voice inside the US government urging that the US find ways to try scale back the provision of leverage to highly-leveraged institutions (Goldman prop desk as well as LTCM), and was willing to go much further in that respect than greenspan. Summers complained that Rubin believed in playing (financial) tennis with wooden tennis rackets.

    One small correction tho — Geithner at the time was my boss on the international side of the treasury, not the head of the NY Fed. He wasn’t involved. And the domestic finance side of the Treasury (run by Gensler) wasn’t that involved either — FRBNY did all the heavy lifting.

  • Posted by Cassandra

    Brad , ooops, indeed I confused him w/David Mulllins.

  • Posted by bsetser

    Bill McDonough actually.

    Mullins (famously) was at LTCM then.

  • Posted by DOR

    Movie Guy,

    I thought I explained the methodology pretty well. Take the US population (July 2006). Take the average number of manufacturing production workers (MPWs) in Jan-July this year and subtract from that the average number in Jan-July 2000.

    I don’t have the numbers with me at the moment, but the decline in MPWs shouldn’t be entirely (100%) attributed to imports from China. Not logical.

    So, reduce the drop in MPWs by the ratio of imports from China to total US imports. And, if you want to get even further into it, reduce that number by the share of foreign investment in China’s total exports.

    Very rough, just a bit of fun.
    .

  • Posted by sunbin

    I am just wondering, is there really major conflict between Cowen’s conclusion and Brad’s testimony?

    Brad’s 4 points
    1) “RMB significantly undervalued.” I think RMB is undervalued. But how significant is a debated question, some said 40%, some said 10-15%. More relevant question is, what to do with it? or does it really matter what is done (to China, vs to US, vs to the world)
    2) China intervenes. yes, any system other than free floating requires quite heavy intervention. again, i would say most of the impact/consequence (and risks) of intervention lies on China itself. If the world should worry, it shoudl worry that China destabilize itself and the consequence ripples through the world system
    3) impact on US financial system. yes, low interest rate kept down by high demand by China, Russia, OPEC countries, in the same order of magnitude. China isn’t
    alone in this.
    4) it is not obvious why china’s current account surplus is neccessarily a bad thing. it certainly represents an inefficient allocation of capital/resource on china’s part. but the implication on US or the world is not that clear-cut. i think this is one of Cowen’s key points.

    my take on cowen is that his view is probably similar to mine on the 4 points, no fundamental disagreement, but somewaht different interpretation.
    the conclusions are
    1) taking into account the total impact (i wish someone with good access to the data can do a quantitative sum up) of US export, price inelastic segment of the import vs price elastic segment to US, the total impact of RMB reval on trade may be quite insignificant, even though it may be in the same direction as Brad predicted
    2) as Dor pointed out, the job loss is tiny, 150k/150M =0.1%. if taking into accoutn job creation/retention in Boeing/etc, it is even smaller.
    3) Taking US business stakes in Chinese companies (eg eg iPOD produced in China sold to EU/Japan, KFC’s profit in China market) and hence ths profit repatriate to US into account, the trade balance could narrow significantly.

    Therefore,
    a) does it worthwhile to waste US political capital on an issue that is questionable to US business/economic interests
    b) it is not efficient for US to micro-manage China’s economy, and micro-management from a distance often get things wrong or drive things opposite to one’s original intention.