Petrodollars (once again)

by Brad Setser
August 26, 2007

A sage commenter once suggested that this blog should be titled follow the money – since it has focused, more than anything else, on trying to understand how the US finances its large current account deficit. 

About two years ago, that quest took me to the world’s oil exporting economies.  In 2005 and in 2006 their external surpluses topped China’s surplus, and they added more to their reserves and official assets than China added to its reserves and investment funds.    China will regain the lead in 2007 – the oil exporters cannot match half a trillion dollars.   But they still have a lot of cash to invest.

The US data – whether the TIC data or the survey data – doesn’t really tell us much about what the oil exporters are doing with their money, or rather it tells us that they are investing the funds in ways that don’t register in the US data. 

But over time,  the flow of petrodollars has started to make some sense.

We know for example, that Russia’s central bank manages Russia’s oil fund.  While Russia has dramatically reduced the dollar share of its reserves, even 50% of $400b plus works out to a substantial sum.  Russia, though, has invested its dollars and euros very, very conservatively.   That may change next year, when Russia’s stabilization fund is split into two.      

Other oil exporters — Libya for example – have also been fairly conservative.  Libya seems to have a lots of funds on deposit in Europe.

But setting Russia aside, the really big money is in the Gulf.   And thanks to the reporting of the Wall Street Journal's  Henny Sender and a nice synthesis piece by James Mawson and Renée Schultes the way the Gulf manages its money is starting to come into better focus. 

My friend Ramin Toloui has shown that most of the Gulf’s assets are held by investment funds, not central banks.   These funds have certain common features – they all seem to have increased their investment in Asia, for example.   But each fund also seems to have its own style.

Qatar’s investment authority, for example, increasingly wants to be a private equity fund – not just invest in private equity funds.

Dubai international capital is a private equity fund — not a sovereign wealth fund.   At the same time, the line between private and public wealth is a bit blurry when a fund manages the "private wealth" of the country's ruling sheik. 

Kuwait’s investment authority, which Henny Sender profiled in Friday’s Wall Street Journal, seems a bit more conservative.  While Kuwait is certainly not a democracy, their investment fund does have to report to Kuwait’s parliament.    Sender:

Although Kuwait has an emir, it also has a parliament, whose members often question the investment authority's executives about their holdings. 

As a result, KIA is more transparent than other funds in the region – indeed, I would say it is second only to Norway when it comes to transparency, though the competition for second isn’t very strong.

KIA still keeps (old) bankers hours: Senders reports the AC shuts down at three, and the parking garage closes at 4.    But KIA also isn’t as sleepy as it was five years ago.   Indeed, in 2003, Senders reports that the bulk of its assets were in Treasuries (though it also seems to have had some equity exposure): 

Mr. Al-Sa'ad [the manager of KIA] learned that Yale was 28% in stocks, 17% in private-equity funds and 20% in real estate at the time. Kuwait was 2.5% in real estate and 1.5% in private-equity funds. The bulk of its money was in U.S. Treasurys. Despite that hoard, the fund had enough losses elsewhere that its returns were negative in 2001 and 2002, Mr. Al-Sa'ad says.

KIA subsequently has shifted from US Treasuries towards global equities — and private equity — over the past few years.    And it also clearly has shifted toward Asia.   Sender:

The recent troubles in U.S. and European financial markets confirmed him in his view that emerging markets, especially in Asia, hold greater promise. He has made some big investments in China, including $700 million in Industrial & Commercial Bank of China in 2006. …. Mr. Al-Sa'ad is cutting the portion of the portfolio invested in the U.S. and Europe to less than 70% from about 90%. "Why invest in 2%-growth economies when you can invest in 8%-growth economies?" he asks.

As Mr. Al-Sa'ad moves away from assets priced in dollars, the euro and the pound sterling, he is moving toward the South Korean won, Malaysian ringgit and Indian rupee. The yen is his least-favorite currency.

The shift to Asia, though, still seems to be a work in progress.    Notice the worlds “is cutting” not “has cut”.  The surge in ICBC’s value no doubt helped accelerate the rebalancing of the Gulf' portfolio.   

30% of a $200b portfolio is $60b – it is a substantial chunk of change.

But it is nothing like what the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (ADIA) likely has invested outside the US and Europe.  ADIA is absolutely enormous – its assets dwarf those of Russia and Kuwait.   Most of ADIA’s vast funds are managed externally.    That is one reason why they don’t appear in the US data. And so far it has been quite happy not to try to be a private equity fund – though it has given large sums over to private equity funds to manage, and recently bought an equity stake in one of its fund managers.   

ADIA has long had a relatively large share of its portfolio in equities – larger, I suspect, than the other Gulf funds.  Its other distinguishing feature – setting its size and secrecy aside – seems to be its willingness to invest in the emerging world.  It probably has more money invested in the emerging world than any other single institution – the 15% share of its equity portfolio in the emerging world in early 2006 likely has gone up.   

So what are the big mysteries that remain?

One is just how far ADIA has gone in diversifying its portfolio away from dollar based assets.  KIA has indicated that it aims for the composition of its portfolio to roughly match a region's share of world GDP.   ADIA hasn't — to my knowledge — made a similar statement.    

ADIA is so big that it in some sense drives the data for the entire Gulf.   If ADIA has only a third of its assets in dollars, it is pretty hard to see how the Gulf as a whole has 60% of its assets in dollars (as the IIF estimates). 

Another is whether the Saudis have moved the same broad direction as Kuwait’s investment authority.   The Saudis don’t have an investment fund per say, but their central bank has large holdings of non-reserve foreign assets.  It isn’t clear whether SAMA still holds a portfolio that looks like a typical central bank portfolio (mostly Treasuries and Agencies) or whether it has taken on more risk.   SAMA supposedly has some equity holdings, but it isn't clear what share of its portfolio is now managed more aggressively. 

I assume that SAMA also continues to hold far more of its assets in dollars than any of the big investment funds, but I wouldn’t mind being able to confirm that assumption. 

The final mystery from the Gulf:  just how much have the leading Saudi families invested on their own?  ADIA seems to pretty much have all of Abu Dhabi’s money.  SAMA manages the reserves – including the fiscal reserves – of the government of Saudi Arabia.  But it doesn’t seem to manage the “private” funds of Saudi royal family.   

And then there is a mystery that has nothing to do with the Gulf.   Of all the various models for investment funds out there — models range from those in the Gulf to Norway's exemplary Government Fund and Singapore's GIC and Temasek — which one will China chose to emulate?

Post a Comment22 Comments

  • Posted by Guest

    Brad, you need a girlfriend.

  • Posted by Guest
  • Posted by bsetser

    oh my, is that webcast out of date … it predates a lot of work that really has helped clarify what the oil exporters are doing with their cash, and it also predates the dramatic increase in spending/ domestic inv. the in oil-exporting economies.

  • Posted by Stuart

    For the sake of keeping those petro dollars coming in, the house of Saud better never ever fall. Going back 30+ years, petro dollars = protection dollars. What do you think the effect would be if the tap of petro dollars funding the CA deficit was turned off?

  • Posted by bsetser

    the funny thing is that the kuwaitis and the emiratis depend just as much (I think you could argue in kuwait’s case much more) than the Saudis on us protection, but that hasn’t precluded them from diversifying their oil funds in a somewhat significant way (probably comparable to the 20% fall in the $ share of Russia’s reserves, tho spread out over a longer time period — based on sender’s reporting). conversely, the chinese don’t depend on the us for protection, and they haven’t diversified their reserves in a meaningful way/ still finance the us (big time).

  • Posted by Stuart

    With a GCC common currency taking shape for 2010 and assuming it actually comes into being, what effect do you think this would have on petro dollar transfers?

  • Posted by Guest

    Sheikdoms in the United Arab Emirates — the third-biggest OPEC oil producer — are looking at projects that would keep oil and commerce flowing if the Strait of Hormuz is blocked.

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    Temporary employment has been falling, in what could be a bad sign for the vitality of the job market — though lately, that link has been tenuous.

    The private-equity firms seeking to acquire Home Depot’s struggling wholesale supply unit slashed the price to $8.5 billion, 18% below what had been agreed to a few months earlier, after the banks that had agreed to loan money to the private-equity buyers balked.

    Professional investors are bargain hunting in corporate-debt issues, not equities, despite last week’s stock rally, as they watch for news that could persuade the Fed to cut rates.

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  • Posted by Guest

    Venezuelans in Chase for Dollars
    Many Venezuelans have grown worried about the prospect of currency devaluation and runaway inflation. The Chávez government has vowed to tamp down inflation, but some earlier efforts to manage the economy have backfired.

    Tata May Bid for Ford’s Luxury Brands
    If Tata bids successfully for Jaguar and Land Rover, the brands would expand the group’s international presence and help it upgrade the cars and trucks it sells in its booming home market.

  • Posted by Guest

    re: “which one will China chose to emulate?” Cheung Kong (Holdings)?

    Norway’s “exemplary” Government Fund?

    US dependence on itself for protection doesn’t seem to have stopped it from diversifying – no? and wouldn’t a severely debilitating attack on China (by what/whom?) sufficiently threaten ‘US interests’ to necessitate a US response?

    And, if I understand, why is it that dollar pegs seem to be portrayed as the root of imbalances and something that needs to be eliminated, yet ends to pegs and diversification seem to be interpreted as dollar desertion?

  • Posted by London Banker

    If Gulf Cooperation Council currency union proceeds, the new currency – the Khaleeji – has the potential to be among the strongest currencies in the world. With an estimated surplus of $20 trillion over the next 20 years if oil prices stay around $60bbl, the reserves backing the Khaleeji would ensure the strenth of the currency regardless of how they were invested. As it is, it looks like more GCC central banks are watching Kuwait’s return to a weighted basket for its currency, shifting away from ties to the US dollar. A weighted-basket Khaleeji would severely undermine the dollar relative to the dollarised currencies currently importing huge inflation to the region from the weak US dollar.

    The GCC states import less than 10 percent of their imports from the US (almost entirely aircraft and weaponry). 40 percent comes from Europe, 40 percent from Asia, and a bit from everywhere else. Being tied to the dollar is completely irrational given these trade flows and will become more unsustainable as the critical mass of economic growth moves further and further east. Over 80 percent of oil is exported to Asia, so there is even greater imbalance on the other side of the equation.

    Also, all the GCC states are working hard to transform themselves into service economies, with wealth flowing through fibre optic cables rather than oil pipelines. They are focused on tourism, finance and healthcare as the service industries where they can achieve rapid comparative advantage. And they are achieving rapid success.

    More Britons now holiday in Dubai than in Florida as of 2006. That alone is an incredible shift in tourism which leaves America looking weak and unappealling (expensive, crime ridden, dirty, poor infrastructure, inferior service, unfriendly to Muslims, nasty fingerprinting and immigration procedures, etc.). Qatar, Dubai and Saudi are all competing to establish local financial centres so that management of the trillions in reserves and investment earnings is localised and safe from high perceived US political risk, with Dubai again the clear leader. Medicine is the latest industry to be targeted for repatriation, to save wealthy elites in Africa, the Subcontinent and Middle East from travelling to Europe or the US for healthcare.

    As Brad observes, the GCC states are also looking east for the future. When Premier Ho flew from being abused by Congress and insulted by Bush in Washington in April last year to being greeted graciously by King Abdullah in Riyadh, one savvy Saudi observer commented, “We may be married to the US because of defense, but we are Muslims we can have more than one wife.” If China becomes Saudi’s younger, sexier, more lively second wife, the decrepid, shrewish, lazy first wife could find herself in quite a nasty predicament.

  • Posted by Guest

    forget gold, meet the oil dinar… he who controls the spice controls the universe.

  • Posted by bsetser

    London banker raises some interesting points. My own view is that the formation of a GCC common currency is increasingly unlikely, and its formation matters less for the financing of the US deficit than a host of other GCC policy choices/ oil market outcomes.

    the overwhelming determinant of the availability of oil financing for the us is the ratio between oil revenues and domestic spending and investment. if the oil price falls a bit and spending (really absorption) rises a bit, there won’t be much of a surplus to lend to anyone.

    the second most important determinant is the portfolio choices of the gulf states, and particularly the saudis (who have the most flows,if not the most assets). I think the saudis at least are constrained by their dollar peg, as they are big enough that selling $ would weaken the $, but that is a hypothesis. Note that the GCC could chance the composition of its portfolio even if it isn’t adding to its assets.

    third is the nature of the common currency. if the GCC as a whole still pegs to the dollar, there won’t be much of a change. If the GCC as a whole adopts a more flexible currency, one potential constraint on a more diverse portfolio (at least for the Saudis, some smaller states do not seem to have been all that constrained) goes away.

    i personally don’t think large us current account deficits financed by irrational pegs (in the oil exporters) or by China’s own policy of clinging to the dollar and financing the us at a considerable cost to itself are a good thing, so i personally welcome pressure for the us to adjust — tho it is obviously better if that pressure comes gradually than all at once.

  • Posted by RebelEconomist

    With both China and much of the gulf pegging to the dollar, if one of them does decide to relax their dollar peg, they may hope to use the other to support the dollar during the process. This could easily prove unacceptable, in which case one leaving the dollar peg could force the other’s hand.

  • Posted by bsetser

    one side effect of the gulf’s growing interest in asia (and the resulting capital inflows) is that it shifts the accumulation of $ assets from one part of the $ zone to another — i.e. from the GCC to Asia. It indirectly has supported very rapid asian reserve growth over the past 4qs. but in some sense it is also a non-cooperative outcome to the coordination game. the cooperative outcome is both the gcc and asia add to their $ holdings.

  • Posted by Guest

    cooperative outcome to what end? – perhaps back to my question to RE about clarifying possible definitions of “effectiveness” when applied to reserve management

  • Posted by RebelEconomist

    Guest,

    In this case, the reserves managers’ problem is completely different from that of the US as in our previous discussion. With no foreseeable prospect of needing the bulk of the reserves, the problem for the oil producers and China becomes one of finding a place to park reserves that is reasonably safe and remunerative. Liquidity could even be seen as undesirable, since the more remote the prospect of the reserves being used, the less their existence exerts appreciation pressure on the domestic currency.

  • Posted by Guest

    thought consensus is that USD also has an appreciation problem relative to GCC currencies and RMB

    re: “reasonably safe and remunerative”

    if “reasonably safe” may be the priority in this case. Beyond the preservation and development of trade ties, and apart from the number of times ‘protection’ is mentioned in reference to GCC/US relations, GCC vulnerabilities have to include water shortages, gender-ethnic-rich/poor gaps and a dependency on massive pools of immigrant labour and professionals and its ongoing capacity to make itself attractive as a destination for workers, tourists and retirees, especially given its proximity to war/terrorism zones all of which add to its dependencies on protection and its somewhat bizarre military relationship with the US (i.e.http://defensenews.com/story.php?F=2944644&C=mideast )

    (Its relationship with Britain, of course, also being much deeper than tourism whether this affects or is effected by how many pounds the GCC holds or how those holdings are allocated?)

    Looking at LFC hit the NYSE top gainers list today with a healthy 16%+ pop, if we may be marching from the ‘new economy’ to the global ‘insurance economy’ – food and energy security, healthcare, pension funds, personal and corporate security, insurance and derivative products of all sorts, lawyers, accountants and credit rating agencies business, ultimately will only be strengthened by ‘financial terrorism’ and the rise of chicken little economics, analysts and investment products and strategies which, presumably, encourage the purchase of, and willingness to pay more for a broad range or protection products and services. It seems the more wealth anyone/thing possesses the more it costs to hold it.

  • Posted by koteli

    Sorry last Guest,

    To talk about “reasonably safe” seems to be a bit out off-topic now-a-days (don’t you watch to TV?).

    First, the Iranian threat is an invention by neo-cons in their thirst for oil business and power. Iran never invaded a country, and the USA invaded some of them in the last century.

    The gender-ethnic-rich/poor gaps and a dependency on massive pools of immigrant labour is also a problem for the USA and now is starting to come to Europe. Do you have any Gini index for Iran?

    The main threat to Iran is lots of population, and most of them young people (sons and daughter of the Iran-Iraq war dead parents), ready and healthy to go to war. That’s the bomb if we don’t let them make business as usual.

    In between (sorry Brad, I don’t want to bitter you the day), according to Hillary, “General David Petraeus told Congress the ‘surge’ will take as much as 10 years to work, so we must be patient.” Thus all eyes are set on 2017.

    The top proximity to war/terrorism zones in developed countries (out of Iraq, Darfour…) just happens in the USA (if you account violent dead / population), though thanks to the export and smuggling of USA guns + a little dark work by the CIA, it’s becoming widespread in South-America.

    The global ‘insurance economy’ maybe refers to financial and derivatives, but please don’t mix it up with food and energy security, healthcare and pension funds. Don’t pull my leg!, please.

    The global ‘insurance economy’ is nonsense unless USA, China and Europe (in that order) take very hard decisions about energy and health. And, one more thing, inequality!

    It seems we are very far from any hope.

    Anyway, we must give thanks to someone (not God, precisely) because Gonzales is out of Gov.

    Cassandra has a nice post about him, and angry bear has another one, “Rats Leaving the Ship”.

    Anyway, you have still Condy, little Bush and Cheyney, and lots of them more to leave the ship.

    Will they leave before the ship sinks?

    Best Regards,

  • Posted by koteli

    Last hour news:

    Sarkozy said Iran can choose between dialogue with the international community or more U.N. sanctions. “This tactic is the only one that allows us to escape from a catastrophic alternative: an Iranian bomb, or the bombing of Iran,” he said.

    Wasn’t smily Blair to settle troubles in ME?

    What a gang!

  • Posted by Guest

    did anyone say the GCC is the only region with vulnerabilites?

    ever heard of health insurance? – do you think that those who purchase it expect it will prevent death or disease?

    if the rats are leaving the ship before the sky falls, as you seem to think it will, where are ‘they’ going and what are ‘they’ doing in prepartion to be reasonably safe in, and perhaps profit from doomsday

    if you can try to link back to the topic, what global reserves may tell us about the ways(the rats in your view?) may be at least attempting to insurance themselves against?

    what’s your point?

  • Posted by koteli

    Wow, Guest! What a reaction!

    Sorry for being late, I’ve been in the dentist’s.

    Several answers, one by one.

    —Sorry, Guest, by here in Spain every citizen, even immigrants (with papers) and their families, have a very good and free health care service. Even old british ladies come in vacation, just to get operated for free on their broken hip, and go back suntanned, for few bucks on Ryan-Air. It’s funny, because they are served as european citizens, though out of eurozone.

    Purchasing health insurance is a waste here (for serious things); you wait a bit less, but the care is not as good.

    Anyone who buys insurance knows that it is to pay a disaster, not to prevent it.

    — I cited angry bear, because I liked a lot his post’s title, as a metaphor. I’ve being told that rats only leave the ship in two cases, or she is burning or sinking. But rats leave the ship to get out of disaster alive! Just animal instinct to find a ‘reasonable’ safe place to start new generations of rats.

    Of course that the real rats are preparing a new future out of the ship and get any profit from it by the way. If they can carefully plan invading countries and spend ordinary people’s taxes for their own benefit, beware the dog, they probably have started new Vulture Companies, Blackwaters, and Halliburtons and the kind.

    As an apart, I’ll tell you that the subprime thing has been carefully planned by the USA power and its in the core of the financial system ideology.

    — Linking back to the topic, I have to say: Sorry, Brad, thank you for your patience and free classes, but I’m not able to guess their real reaction.

    But for you, Guest, a couple of ideas.

    As far as they have lots of oil, they won’t have water problems (and peak-oil will be here in short time). They will pay whatever they are asked.
    After watching to photographs of Dubai hotels and resorts, and skying resorts in Dubai city,… Their natural investment place would be Macau, just trying to compete with Las vegas Sands corporation. Today they opened their Venetian Casino-Hotel. It will be a difficult competition in magnificence of papier-mâché with tons of kitsch aesthetics! The TV commenter said that the tastes of Chinese going to Macau are very similar of those USamericans going to Las Vegas. So, why not?

    That could be a great beginning, much more profitable than Treasury bonds.

    Best regards,

    PS: I’ve seen in Basque TV how 50 palestinian children have been treated in Tel Aviv airport, after being in adopting families in Bilbao for two months (just to try to feed them in health and in freedom, going to the beach and teach them swimming). Lots of hours in single interrogatory rooms with lots of question. And after that, a Basque TV speaker asked to a 10 years old little girl: What happened in Tel Aviv airport? And the 12 year girl answered: “The occupying forces have made us lots of questions about why we went to… Bilbao, out of our family? And I told him that we have been for first time in a free country, and a rich one”. Does this tell you something?

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    Blackberry 950 …$140
    Blackberry 957 …$145
    Blackberry 7280 …$155
    Blackberry 7290 …$160
    Blackberry 7510 …$165
    BlackBerry 7520 …$170
    Blackberry 7730 …$175
    Blackberry 7750 …$180
    Blackberry 7780 …$185
    Blackberry 5810 …$140
    Blackberry 8800 …$180
    Blackberry 8700c …$160
    Blackberry Pearl …$185
    and many more

    QTEK
    Qtek Qtek 8500 …$130
    Qtek S200 …$140
    Qtek 9000 …$210
    Qtek 8310 …$180
    Qtek 8300 …$145
    Qtek 9100 …$230
    Qtek 8100 …$150
    Qtek S110 …$175
    Qtek S100 …$150
    Qtek 9090 …$170
    Qtek 8020 …$140
    Qtek 8010 …$110
    Qtek 2020i …$190
    Qtek 2020 …$180
    Qtek 1010 …$140 20GB
    and many more

    I-MATE PHONES
    I-MATE Smartflip …$140
    I-MATE JAMin …$210
    I-MATE JASJAR …$220
    I-MATE K-JAM …$150
    I-MATE SP5 …$120
    I-MATE SP5m …$135
    I-MATE SP4m …$110
    I-MATE JAM Black …$130
    I-MATE JAM …$160
    I-MATE PDA2 …$150
    I-MATE PDA2k …$138
    I-MATE SP3i …$100
    I-MATE SP3 …$115
    I-MATE Pocket PC …$120
    I-MATE Smartphone2 …$110
    I-MATE Smartphone …$115

    Palm Treo Phones:
    Palm Treo 650 GSM …$120
    Palm Treo 700w …$140
    Palm Treo 600…$100
    Palm Treo 680 …$120
    Palm Treo 700p…$150
    Palm Treo 750V…$220
    Cingular 8125 …$235

    Dopod Phones In Store:
    Dopod 830…$200
    Dopod 900…$360
    Dopod 577…$130
    Dopod 818T…$180
    Dopod S300…$150
    Dopod D810…$230
    Dopod 818 Pro…$210
    Dopod 696…$190
    Dopod 585…$150
    Dopod C720W…$210
    Dopod C800…$280
    Dopod 838 Pro…$260
    Dopod 595…$170
    Dopod 696…$180

    Nextel Phones:
    Nextel i930…$140
    Nextel i830…$120
    Nextel i920…$130
    Nextel i970…$170
    Nextel I580…$150

    Play station games
    PSP…$140
    GameBoy Advance…$130
    Nintendo DS…$120
    Nintendo Wii…$220
    GameCube…$150
    Xbox 360…$250
    Playstation 3…$300
    PlayStation 3 60GB…$420
    Playstation 2…$200

    HTC P5500 (HTC Nike)…$500
    HTC P6500 (HTC Sirius)…$480
    HTC S730 (HTC Wings)…$490
    HTC P4550 (HTC Kaiser)…$470
    HTC P3450 (HTC Elf)…$450
    HTC Advantage X7501…$470
    HTC S420 (HTC Erato)…$430
    HTC P6300 (HTC Panda)…$410
    HTC S630 (HTC Cavalier 100)…$400
    HTC P3400 (HTC Gene)…$390
    HTC P3350 (HTC Love)…$400
    HTC Advantage X7500 (HTC Athena)…$470
    HTC S320 (HTC Monet)…$300
    HTC P4350 (HTC Herald 100)…$350
    HTC P3300 (HTC Artemis 160)…$370
    HTC S620 (HTC Excalibur 100)…$450
    HTC P3600 (HTC Trinity 100)…$380
    HTC S310 (HTC Oxygen)…$270
    HTC MTeoR (HTC Breeze 160)…$330
    HTC TyTN P4500 (HTC Hermes 200)…$390

    NEW Sidekick Phones In Store:
    Pink juicy coutoure Sidekick 3…$180
    New D-Wade Sidekick 3 …$300
    Sidekick 3 D-Wade edition…$160
    Green Lrg limited edition Sidekick 3…$180
    Sidekick II Mister Cartoon…$140
    Juicy couture Sidekick 1…$150
    Pink juicy couture Sidekick 2…$170
    1996 Transfer Case: Sidekick 1996, and 1997
    automatic…$200
    Sidekick Basic Kit…$190
    Sidekick II T-Mobile with Color Screen…$170
    T-Mobile Sidekick 2 Danger …$150
    T-Mobile Sidekick II TMO to Go Prepaid Phone…$175
    Mobile Sidekick II…$120
    T-Mobile Sidekick 2 Danger …$140
    SIDEKICK 3 for just…$160

    Apple Iphone In Store:
    Portable DVD PLayer…$270
    Apple iphones 2GB…$250
    Apple iphone 4GB…$370
    Apple iphone 8GB…$540

    Apple Ipod In Store:
    Apple 30 GB iPod Photo M9829LL/A…$120
    Apple 4 GB iPod Mini Blue M9436LL/A…$110
    Apple 20GB iPod Nano …$130
    Apple 2 GB iPod Nano…$100
    Apple 4 GB iPod Nano…$130
    Apple 30 GB iPod Video…$150
    Apple 60 GB iPod Video…$170
    and many more

    Plasma Tv
    Toshiba Satellite A75-S229 Laptop Computer…$380
    Toshiba Satellite M45-S311 LaptopComputer…$470
    Toshiba Satellite R15-S822 Laptop Computer…$720
    Toshiba Qosmio G15-AV501 Laptop Computer…$1300
    Toshiba Satellite A65-S126 Laptop Computer…$400
    Toshiba Satellite P25-S526 Laptop Computer…$1000
    Toshiba Satellite A45-S120 Laptop Computer…$400
    Toshiba Satellite M35X-S149 Laptop Computer…$500
    Toshiba Qosmio E15-AV101 Laptop Computer…$1100
    Toshiba Satellite P35-S609 Laptop Computer…$1200
    Toshiba Qosmio F15-AV201 Laptop Computer…$950
    Toshiba Portege M200 Laptop Computer…$650

    Panasonic TH-42PD50U Plasma Tv…$900
    Panasonic TH-42PX50U Plasma Tv…$1200
    Panasonic TH-50PX50U Plasma Tv…$1500
    Panasonic TH-42PWD6UY Plasma Tv…$900
    Panasonic TH-42PD25U/P Plasma Tv…$700
    Panasonic TH-42PHD8UK Plasma Tv…$650
    Panasonic TH-65PHD7UY Plasma Tv…$2200
    Pioneer PDP-5050HD Plasma Tv…$1300
    Panasonic TH-37PX50U Plasma Tv…$900
    Panasonic TH-42PX500U Plasma Tv…$1200

    Sony KLV-32M1 Plasma Tv…$700
    Sony PFM-42V1/S Plasma Tv…$900
    Sony KDE-61XBR950 Plasma Tv…$3500
    Sony KDE-42XBR950 Plasma Tv…$1200
    Sony PFM-42X1/S Plasma Tv…$800
    Sony KDE-42XS955 Plasma Tv…$750
    Sony FWD-50PX1/S Plasma Tv…$1400

    Samsung HP-R4252 Plasma Tv…$9500
    Samsung LN-R328W – LCD TV – 32…$800
    Samsung LN-R408D – LCD TV – 40…$1000
    Samsung LT-P326W – LCD TV – 32…$750
    Samsung LTM 225W – LCD TV – 22…$850
    Samsung PPM63H3-plasma panel 63…$2000
    Samsung HP-P5071 50-inch 1366X768 HD Plasma TV Ref…$1300
    Samsung HPP5031 – plasma panel – 50…$1700
    Pioneer PDP-5050HD Plasma Tv…$1400
    Sharp 32″ Aquos HD-Ready LCD TV…$780
    and many more

    LAPTOPS
    APPLE LAPTOPS
    Apple NoteBook Laptop for just …$650
    Apple Mac Bookfor just …$750
    Apple Mac Pro for just …$1000
    Apple Laptop 17inch for just…$700
    APPLE IBOOK 12″ 133GHZ…$650
    APPLE IBOOK 14″ 142GHZ…$880
    APPLE IBOOK G4 133GHZ…$770
    APPLE IBOOK G4 142GHZ…$700
    APPLE G4 POWERBOOK 15GHZ SUPERDRIVE WITH 15
    INCHDISPLAY…$980
    APPLE G5 POWERMAC 20GHZ DESKTOP
    COMPUTER…$820
    APPLE G4 POWERBOOK 15GHZ SUPERDRIVE WITH 17 INCH
    DISPLAY…$650

    All Toshiba laptops
    Toshiba Satellite PRO L10……… …$620
    Toshiba M200…………………… …$500
    Toshiba R100…………………… …$650
    Toshiba Qosmio E10……………… …$750
    Toshiba Satellite PRO L20……… …$450
    Toshiba M100…………………… …$1380
    Toshiba M300…………………… …$1140
    Toshiba Portege A200…………… …$920
    Toshiba Satellite L10…………… …$730
    Toshiba Qosmio F20……………… …$800

    *Dell Laptops
    Dell Latitude D600……………… …$650
    Dell Latitude D500t…………… …$700
    Dell Inspiron 6000……………… …$650
    Dell Latitude D505……………… …$740
    Dell Latitude D610……………… …$960
    Dell Latitude D510……………… …$820
    Dell Inspiron 9300……………… …$930
    Del Xps M2010…$700
    Del Xps M1710…$550

    Sony VAIO VGN-T1……………… …$1180
    Sony VAIO VGN-FS315…………… …$720
    Sony VAIO VGN-S3……………… …$850
    Sony VAIO VGN-TX1…………… …$1240
    Sony VAIO VGN-FS215…………… …$710
    Sony VAIO VGN-S4……………… …$870
    Sony VAIO PCG-K35…………… …$750
    Sony VAIO A170 Laptop Computer…$1300
    Sony VAIO GRT250 Laptop Computer…$1350
    Sony VAIO V505DC1 Laptop Computer…$1400
    Sony VAIO GRT270 Laptop Computer …$1600
    Sony VAIO GRT100 Laptop Computer …$1500
    Sony VAIO PCG-GRX7001 Laptop Computer…$1450
    Sony VAIO PCG-R505ESK SuperSlim Pro Notebook…$1500
    Sony VAIO A130P LaptopComputer…$1300
    Sony VAIO VGN-B100B08 Laptop Computer Notebook…$1100
    Sony PCG-K33 VAIO K33 – Mobile Pentium 4…$1050
    Sony Vaio PCG-V505EX Notebook PC (150-GHz Pentium—…$1200
    Dell Latitude C640 18GHz P4 Laptop w/CD-RW…$550USD
    Dell Inspiron XPS M140 Notebook Computer for Home…$680
    Sony VAIO FS540P – Pentium M 730 16 GHz – 154″ TFT…$700
    Sony Intel Pentium M 100GB Notebook Computer with DVD+/-R/RW Drive…$850
    ThinkPad G40 2389 – C 25 GHz – 141″ TFT IBM…$780
    Panasonic Toughbook 18 Touchscre…$900
    HP Compaq Business Notebook nc8230 – Pentium M 760 2 GHz – 154″ TFT…$1150
    HP Compaq Mobile Workstation nw8240 – Pentium M 760 2 GHz – 154″ TFT…$980
    and many more

    If interested , you can contact us through via Email:
    jackvinestore@hotmailcom
    jackvinestore@yahoocom
    jackvinestore@ommailcom

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