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	<title>Comments on: Waiting for the Plenum</title>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: df</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100478</link>
		<dc:creator>df</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 23:51:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100478</guid>
		<description>Higher food price mean higher wages. This means that finally it may be the end of a long era of falling global minimum wage.
The coming olympic games might well get explosive. I expect them to be so. By 2008 consumption from the USA and EUrope will be down for the same reason : end of the global housing and debt bubble.
When financial markets finally turn rational (and I know very well that markets stay irrational much longer than I or individual others can stay liquid) they will crash down to lower prie earning ratio below the long term mean. RIght now we are way above the 14 - 18 mean (depending on measures and markets) despite overstated returns. So in 2008 we should have : desappointed stock market players, workers with falling standards of living because of rising food prices and peasants hurt by weather conditions.
In fact the really funny thing in all this is how the weather is playing its own part and adding its exogeneous woes to the already huge endogeneous ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Higher food price mean higher wages. This means that finally it may be the end of a long era of falling global minimum wage.<br />
The coming olympic games might well get explosive. I expect them to be so. By 2008 consumption from the USA and EUrope will be down for the same reason : end of the global housing and debt bubble.<br />
When financial markets finally turn rational (and I know very well that markets stay irrational much longer than I or individual others can stay liquid) they will crash down to lower prie earning ratio below the long term mean. RIght now we are way above the 14 - 18 mean (depending on measures and markets) despite overstated returns. So in 2008 we should have : desappointed stock market players, workers with falling standards of living because of rising food prices and peasants hurt by weather conditions.<br />
In fact the really funny thing in all this is how the weather is playing its own part and adding its exogeneous woes to the already huge endogeneous ones.</p>
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		<title>By: Twofish</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100477</link>
		<dc:creator>Twofish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 21:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The other issue is that if food prices remain permanently high after the demand shock is over, then what we have here is an effective wealth transfer from the cities to the countryside, which isn't necessarily a bad thing from a national standpoint given that most Chinese are still farmers.  The one piece of data that I'm sure the Politburo has that I don't is how this food inflation is affecting the countryside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other issue is that if food prices remain permanently high after the demand shock is over, then what we have here is an effective wealth transfer from the cities to the countryside, which isn&#8217;t necessarily a bad thing from a national standpoint given that most Chinese are still farmers.  The one piece of data that I&#8217;m sure the Politburo has that I don&#8217;t is how this food inflation is affecting the countryside.</p>
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		<title>By: HZ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100476</link>
		<dc:creator>HZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 19:24:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100476</guid>
		<description>Michael,
Inflation above US level results in a real appreciation of RMB. So in a way the RMB is already appreciating faster. I hear so far inflation is limited to food (and asset price, of course, but that is not part of CPI). In the case of food, subsidizing the purchasing power of the city poors seems a better response than an overall monetary response.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,<br />
Inflation above US level results in a real appreciation of RMB. So in a way the RMB is already appreciating faster. I hear so far inflation is limited to food (and asset price, of course, but that is not part of CPI). In the case of food, subsidizing the purchasing power of the city poors seems a better response than an overall monetary response.</p>
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		<title>By: Twofish</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100475</link>
		<dc:creator>Twofish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100475</guid>
		<description>The primary responsibility of the Chinese government is to look after the national interest of China and the primary responsibility of the US government is to look after the national interest of the United States.  However, technology has reached the point that national interests are now intertwined.  It is now impossible for the Chinese economy to sink without sinking the US economy and vice versa.

So it is in people's self-interest for  China to do anything it can to help the US economy, and for the US can do anything it can to help the Chinese economy.

About CNOOC and Dubai ports.  National security was just a smokescreen and wasn't the real issue.  Money was.  Chervon wanted to win the Unocal deal so they pulled out all of the public relations people, talked about national security, and managed to give a microphone to people that are normally ignored.  (US China Security Review Commission, I'm talking about you........)

That's how the game is played.  CNOOC made some strategic mistakes, due to a lack of understanding about the US business environment.  It should have gotten its public relations, lobbyists, and media consultants ready at the start of the game.

Also, CNOOC was operating at the limits of its cash flow.  (Contrary to what you hear in the media, the Chinese government doesn't give subsidies to SOE's for overseas accquistions).  Also, CNOOC was slow out of the starting gate because the CEO had to convince the board of directors that the deal was a good idea, and Chinese CEO's weren't used to deal with active boards.  Finally, it's not clear to me whether the deal was in CNOOC's interests or in the interests of the Chinese state or the Chinese people who were CNOOC's majority shareholders.  There is a fundamental conflict of interest between the management of the company who tend to want to build financial empires, and the shareholders who find these empires costly.

If you want to do business in the United States, the most important things are to have good "guanxi" (connections) and to understand and respect the local culture.

Finally, there really wasn't much support I could see within the Chinese government for CNOOC's takeover of Unocal.  The PRC has $1 trillion in foreign exchange reserves.  It could have easily written CNOOC a big check.  It didn't.  The concern of the Communist Party was that once a rich uncle writes a big check for one of his nephews, all of his other nephews are going to come in line for their checks.  Things like the China Investment Corporation are intended to regulate this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The primary responsibility of the Chinese government is to look after the national interest of China and the primary responsibility of the US government is to look after the national interest of the United States.  However, technology has reached the point that national interests are now intertwined.  It is now impossible for the Chinese economy to sink without sinking the US economy and vice versa.</p>
<p>So it is in people&#8217;s self-interest for  China to do anything it can to help the US economy, and for the US can do anything it can to help the Chinese economy.</p>
<p>About CNOOC and Dubai ports.  National security was just a smokescreen and wasn&#8217;t the real issue.  Money was.  Chervon wanted to win the Unocal deal so they pulled out all of the public relations people, talked about national security, and managed to give a microphone to people that are normally ignored.  (US China Security Review Commission, I&#8217;m talking about you&#8230;&#8230;..)</p>
<p>That&#8217;s how the game is played.  CNOOC made some strategic mistakes, due to a lack of understanding about the US business environment.  It should have gotten its public relations, lobbyists, and media consultants ready at the start of the game.</p>
<p>Also, CNOOC was operating at the limits of its cash flow.  (Contrary to what you hear in the media, the Chinese government doesn&#8217;t give subsidies to SOE&#8217;s for overseas accquistions).  Also, CNOOC was slow out of the starting gate because the CEO had to convince the board of directors that the deal was a good idea, and Chinese CEO&#8217;s weren&#8217;t used to deal with active boards.  Finally, it&#8217;s not clear to me whether the deal was in CNOOC&#8217;s interests or in the interests of the Chinese state or the Chinese people who were CNOOC&#8217;s majority shareholders.  There is a fundamental conflict of interest between the management of the company who tend to want to build financial empires, and the shareholders who find these empires costly.</p>
<p>If you want to do business in the United States, the most important things are to have good &#8220;guanxi&#8221; (connections) and to understand and respect the local culture.</p>
<p>Finally, there really wasn&#8217;t much support I could see within the Chinese government for CNOOC&#8217;s takeover of Unocal.  The PRC has $1 trillion in foreign exchange reserves.  It could have easily written CNOOC a big check.  It didn&#8217;t.  The concern of the Communist Party was that once a rich uncle writes a big check for one of his nephews, all of his other nephews are going to come in line for their checks.  Things like the China Investment Corporation are intended to regulate this.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous ibid.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100474</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous ibid.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 09:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dave, inflation in foodstuffs creates what is euphemistically called "political risk."

I would be very surprised if China does not revalue, not for the sake of the West, but because it is in its own national interest.

The problems of the US are relatively easy, as least in principle, to solve. Defense and healthcare spending are too high. Taxation of the upper 0.1% is too low, as is investment in technology and infrastructure. Some industries need de-consolidation. Elections need to be cleaned up.

All of these are, in principle, much easier to resolve than the challenges China faces. The political leadership of both nations is, in my quiet opinion, very similar, with the single exception that the Chinese leadership has not yet been in a position to behave openly with the hubris that the American leadership has.

That time may come, too. The only difference, after all, is behavior vs. attitude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, inflation in foodstuffs creates what is euphemistically called &#8220;political risk.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would be very surprised if China does not revalue, not for the sake of the West, but because it is in its own national interest.</p>
<p>The problems of the US are relatively easy, as least in principle, to solve. Defense and healthcare spending are too high. Taxation of the upper 0.1% is too low, as is investment in technology and infrastructure. Some industries need de-consolidation. Elections need to be cleaned up.</p>
<p>All of these are, in principle, much easier to resolve than the challenges China faces. The political leadership of both nations is, in my quiet opinion, very similar, with the single exception that the Chinese leadership has not yet been in a position to behave openly with the hubris that the American leadership has.</p>
<p>That time may come, too. The only difference, after all, is behavior vs. attitude.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Chiang</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100473</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Chiang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 03:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100473</guid>
		<description>Alex Forshaw,

America's Global competitiveness problem isn't the responsiblity of the Chinese to solve. Period.

From this week's Newsweek magazine,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21047401/site/newsweek/

The global economic turbulence isn't emanating from the East, as it did during the Asian financial crisis 10 years ago, but from the West. "This time around, the financial indiscipline and lack of respect for risk is not coming from inexperienced emerging institutions, but so-called experienced institutions losing their head," says van Agtmael. "The overborrowing, overconsuming and underinvestment is now in the U.S., while emerging markets are accumulating reserves, building their infrastructure and, to some extent, bailing the world economy out because of their strong demand growth."

Americans are annoyed as hell at the Chinese. The U.S. Congress thinks it knows how. Citing hazy national-security concerns, Washington's lawmakers barred China from taking over Unocal, a California oil company, in 2005 and last year forced Dubai port operator DP World to sell its U.S. operations. More recently, there's been political grousing over Borse Dubai's bid for 20 percent of NASDAQ. But it's unlikely that protectionism will stem the tide of suitors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex Forshaw,</p>
<p>America&#8217;s Global competitiveness problem isn&#8217;t the responsiblity of the Chinese to solve. Period.</p>
<p>From this week&#8217;s Newsweek magazine,<br />
<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21047401/site/newsweek/" rel="nofollow">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21047401/site/newsweek/</a></p>
<p>The global economic turbulence isn&#8217;t emanating from the East, as it did during the Asian financial crisis 10 years ago, but from the West. &#8220;This time around, the financial indiscipline and lack of respect for risk is not coming from inexperienced emerging institutions, but so-called experienced institutions losing their head,&#8221; says van Agtmael. &#8220;The overborrowing, overconsuming and underinvestment is now in the U.S., while emerging markets are accumulating reserves, building their infrastructure and, to some extent, bailing the world economy out because of their strong demand growth.&#8221;</p>
<p>Americans are annoyed as hell at the Chinese. The U.S. Congress thinks it knows how. Citing hazy national-security concerns, Washington&#8217;s lawmakers barred China from taking over Unocal, a California oil company, in 2005 and last year forced Dubai port operator DP World to sell its U.S. operations. More recently, there&#8217;s been political grousing over Borse Dubai&#8217;s bid for 20 percent of NASDAQ. But it&#8217;s unlikely that protectionism will stem the tide of suitors.</p>
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		<title>By: Twofish</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100472</link>
		<dc:creator>Twofish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 19:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100472</guid>
		<description>That previous post was from me....

Also I think it has taken so long because it's only in the last two months do you have enough data that something is definitely wrong with PRC currency policy to convince the skeptics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That previous post was from me&#8230;.</p>
<p>Also I think it has taken so long because it&#8217;s only in the last two months do you have enough data that something is definitely wrong with PRC currency policy to convince the skeptics.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100471</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 18:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100471</guid>
		<description>China over the last few years has been ruled by two factions.  One is the coastal faction, and the other is the populist factions, and the new Standing Committee is likely to be balance between these two factions.

It is true that the populist faction doesn't have a deep grasp of monetary policy and foreign trade, but on the other than the "coastal faction" doesn't have a good grasp of rural administration and agricultural policy.  The nice thing is that these two groups are not in a "zero-sum" situation and they have been able to work with each other quite well.

Chinese policy is *not* about short-term politics (well at least not more than other places).  The thing that drives everything is the long term desire to keep the party in power.  It's totally unthinkable to me that the PRC leadership is going to wait until after the Olympics to do anything, because they will still be around when that happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China over the last few years has been ruled by two factions.  One is the coastal faction, and the other is the populist factions, and the new Standing Committee is likely to be balance between these two factions.</p>
<p>It is true that the populist faction doesn&#8217;t have a deep grasp of monetary policy and foreign trade, but on the other than the &#8220;coastal faction&#8221; doesn&#8217;t have a good grasp of rural administration and agricultural policy.  The nice thing is that these two groups are not in a &#8220;zero-sum&#8221; situation and they have been able to work with each other quite well.</p>
<p>Chinese policy is *not* about short-term politics (well at least not more than other places).  The thing that drives everything is the long term desire to keep the party in power.  It&#8217;s totally unthinkable to me that the PRC leadership is going to wait until after the Olympics to do anything, because they will still be around when that happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100470</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100470</guid>
		<description>Maybe China wil buy grain and pork instead of treasuries and agencies</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe China wil buy grain and pork instead of treasuries and agencies</p>
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		<title>By: AF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100469</link>
		<dc:creator>AF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 07:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/09/29/waiting-for-the-plenum/#comment-100469</guid>
		<description>Also, I definitely agree with qingdao's cynicism.. Chinese policy is overwhelmingly about short term politics. Even if the two currency hawks mentioned keep their heads down, all the interests that depend on China's Argentine monetary policy still have a very good idea of what the hawks' policy inclinations will be, so they will keep the hawks out, and the runaway train will fly off the tracks a day after the Olympics instead of a little bit before.

In the parts of China where Chinese growth stats even somewhat correlate with reality, inflation is almost certainly higher than the PRC admits, and the PRC knows it, imo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I definitely agree with qingdao&#8217;s cynicism.. Chinese policy is overwhelmingly about short term politics. Even if the two currency hawks mentioned keep their heads down, all the interests that depend on China&#8217;s Argentine monetary policy still have a very good idea of what the hawks&#8217; policy inclinations will be, so they will keep the hawks out, and the runaway train will fly off the tracks a day after the Olympics instead of a little bit before.</p>
<p>In the parts of China where Chinese growth stats even somewhat correlate with reality, inflation is almost certainly higher than the PRC admits, and the PRC knows it, imo.</p>
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