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	<title>Comments on: A strong October TIC data release, but the BEA&#8217;s data only deepens the mystery of how the US financed its current account deficit in the third quarter</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: algernon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103172</link>
		<dc:creator>algernon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:50:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Stephen Roach has it right, though one might add that foreign central banks contributed mightily to real estate bubble &#038; to the current commodity price inflation.

The Fed's fault in the stock market bubble is less obvious than in the real estate bubble.  If during the nineties, the US had a market-produced money supply (where people can only borrow money that has been saved instead of freshly printed) rather the Fed, investment demand would have driven interest rates up &#038; thereby choked off the irrational exuberance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen Roach has it right, though one might add that foreign central banks contributed mightily to real estate bubble &#038; to the current commodity price inflation.</p>
<p>The Fed&#8217;s fault in the stock market bubble is less obvious than in the real estate bubble.  If during the nineties, the US had a market-produced money supply (where people can only borrow money that has been saved instead of freshly printed) rather the Fed, investment demand would have driven interest rates up &#038; thereby choked off the irrational exuberance.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103171</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Isin't some caution as well needed, when compared with older data, due to changes in the inlfation measure and therefore in the GDP growth/non-growth?
Even if one argues the changes are justified, one has to accept that this means not full compatibility with historic expieriences.
As well one can ask, if this is not a recession for many people. The neccessity of a recession for improved deficit may only hold, if there is not a shift in the income from people with low savings rate to people with high savings rate.
Some problems might have eased, others may have strengthend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isin&#8217;t some caution as well needed, when compared with older data, due to changes in the inlfation measure and therefore in the GDP growth/non-growth?<br />
Even if one argues the changes are justified, one has to accept that this means not full compatibility with historic expieriences.<br />
As well one can ask, if this is not a recession for many people. The neccessity of a recession for improved deficit may only hold, if there is not a shift in the income from people with low savings rate to people with high savings rate.<br />
Some problems might have eased, others may have strengthend.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103170</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 12:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Richard -- I should note that your basic story for the income balance from last year has basically been born out: it is improving on the back of strong growth elsewhere.

that said, the fall in the net "other" payments puzzles me -- the net stock of claims on the us is rising, and the fall in some rates in q3 will have an impact with a lag.   and it isn't yet clear to me how the combination of lower fed funds/ lower treasury rates and higher libor/ credit spreads works its way through the overall income balance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard &#8212; I should note that your basic story for the income balance from last year has basically been born out: it is improving on the back of strong growth elsewhere.</p>
<p>that said, the fall in the net &#8220;other&#8221; payments puzzles me &#8212; the net stock of claims on the us is rising, and the fall in some rates in q3 will have an impact with a lag.   and it isn&#8217;t yet clear to me how the combination of lower fed funds/ lower treasury rates and higher libor/ credit spreads works its way through the overall income balance.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103169</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Richard -- no doubt the current account deficit has improved significantly since q3 of last year (down 1.5% of GDP).  It hasn't though improved significantly in the face of a rise in oil prices, oil prices (actual import prices) were around $67 a barrel per the bea data this q3 v around 65 a barrel last q3 (imported volumes seem to be down y/y tho ... ).

We will see what happens in q4 -- i suspect some of the improvement dissippates on the back of higher oil.

the reasons why aren't really a mystery -- currency adjustment works, and even if the US hasn't slipped into a recession, it has slowed v the rest of the world.  but the basic trend improvement is unambiguously good news.  the big caution is that by my analysis, net private demand for us assets is falling even faster than the us external deficit ...

re: errors -- the big positive in q2 05 seems linked to preparation by us firms to take advantage of the HIA provisions in q3 and q4; that certainly explains the strength of (net) capital inflows in those quarters, as the HIA led to a fall in gross outflows (fdi earnings were repatriated rather than reinvested ... ).  I don't think the same dynamics are at work now.

guest -- good points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard &#8212; no doubt the current account deficit has improved significantly since q3 of last year (down 1.5% of GDP).  It hasn&#8217;t though improved significantly in the face of a rise in oil prices, oil prices (actual import prices) were around $67 a barrel per the bea data this q3 v around 65 a barrel last q3 (imported volumes seem to be down y/y tho &#8230; ).</p>
<p>We will see what happens in q4 &#8212; i suspect some of the improvement dissippates on the back of higher oil.</p>
<p>the reasons why aren&#8217;t really a mystery &#8212; currency adjustment works, and even if the US hasn&#8217;t slipped into a recession, it has slowed v the rest of the world.  but the basic trend improvement is unambiguously good news.  the big caution is that by my analysis, net private demand for us assets is falling even faster than the us external deficit &#8230;</p>
<p>re: errors &#8212; the big positive in q2 05 seems linked to preparation by us firms to take advantage of the HIA provisions in q3 and q4; that certainly explains the strength of (net) capital inflows in those quarters, as the HIA led to a fall in gross outflows (fdi earnings were repatriated rather than reinvested &#8230; ).  I don&#8217;t think the same dynamics are at work now.</p>
<p>guest &#8212; good points.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103168</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103168</guid>
		<description>" Net inflows from banks, broker-dealers and other non-bank financial intermediaries provided about $110b of financing.  That too is a big change -- claims from banks and non-banks have not typically been a major source of net financing for the US.   This generally is very short-term financing."

This may correlate with general market volatility, risk aversion, and a lack of near term commitment to longer term investment choices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; Net inflows from banks, broker-dealers and other non-bank financial intermediaries provided about $110b of financing.  That too is a big change &#8212; claims from banks and non-banks have not typically been a major source of net financing for the US.   This generally is very short-term financing.&#8221;</p>
<p>This may correlate with general market volatility, risk aversion, and a lack of near term commitment to longer term investment choices.</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103167</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Brad,

A couple of very brief points:

- the statistical adjustment is indeed large but not by no means without precedent. As a share of GDP, it was +2.45% of GDP in Q3. The record at least going back over the last 40 years was +2.8% of GDP seen in 2005Q2. Note this followed by large negatives in the next two quarters i.e. too many net capital inflows relative to the current account balance(-2.2% of GDP in Q3, -2.4% of GDP in Q4). Maybe the rebound in the October TIC data are setting us up from something similar in Q4 this year???

- second, take a look at the improvement in the current account deficit as a % of GDP over the last year i.e. the last four quarters. This has now improved by almost 1.5% points (1.44% points to be precise) in the year to Q3. Outside of 1991 when, as is well known, the current account data were distorted by a surge in transfer payments relating to the first Gulf War, this is the most rapid 4-Q improvement since at least the 1950s. Surely worthy of comment? Notably, this has been achieved despite the impediment of near record oil prices and without domestic recession, the usual trigger for sharp improvements.

Richard Iley</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brad,</p>
<p>A couple of very brief points:</p>
<p>- the statistical adjustment is indeed large but not by no means without precedent. As a share of GDP, it was +2.45% of GDP in Q3. The record at least going back over the last 40 years was +2.8% of GDP seen in 2005Q2. Note this followed by large negatives in the next two quarters i.e. too many net capital inflows relative to the current account balance(-2.2% of GDP in Q3, -2.4% of GDP in Q4). Maybe the rebound in the October TIC data are setting us up from something similar in Q4 this year???</p>
<p>- second, take a look at the improvement in the current account deficit as a % of GDP over the last year i.e. the last four quarters. This has now improved by almost 1.5% points (1.44% points to be precise) in the year to Q3. Outside of 1991 when, as is well known, the current account data were distorted by a surge in transfer payments relating to the first Gulf War, this is the most rapid 4-Q improvement since at least the 1950s. Surely worthy of comment? Notably, this has been achieved despite the impediment of near record oil prices and without domestic recession, the usual trigger for sharp improvements.</p>
<p>Richard Iley</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103166</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, it is worth publishing monthly -- if for no other reason than to build the case that the UK needs to improve its data system (pretty soon all global flows with go through the UK) and to convince your friends in London that their desire to be the global capital capital for sovereign wealth fund management shouldn't come at the expense of a global push for more transparency from the funds.

If you have data from the key creditors, you don't have to rely  on the sisyphian task of trying to count flows ... and the more the city courts SWFs even in the absence of any increase in their transparency (and the more the UK defends unreformed SWFs in the g-7), the less pressure there is for change.

And the more "dark" flows (to differentiate them from Hausmann's dark matter, which comes from the income side of the current account ..)

Real think -- true, but the chinese still had more $ left over b/c their exports increased more than their imports, and the Saudis and argentines have to do something with the dollars they get.  If they just hold currency, that would show up in the current account data (line 67, to be precise).  the us thinks foreigners did end up holding about $5b more in currency than they started, but that cannot finance a $180b deficit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, it is worth publishing monthly &#8212; if for no other reason than to build the case that the UK needs to improve its data system (pretty soon all global flows with go through the UK) and to convince your friends in London that their desire to be the global capital capital for sovereign wealth fund management shouldn&#8217;t come at the expense of a global push for more transparency from the funds.</p>
<p>If you have data from the key creditors, you don&#8217;t have to rely  on the sisyphian task of trying to count flows &#8230; and the more the city courts SWFs even in the absence of any increase in their transparency (and the more the UK defends unreformed SWFs in the g-7), the less pressure there is for change.</p>
<p>And the more &#8220;dark&#8221; flows (to differentiate them from Hausmann&#8217;s dark matter, which comes from the income side of the current account ..)</p>
<p>Real think &#8212; true, but the chinese still had more $ left over b/c their exports increased more than their imports, and the Saudis and argentines have to do something with the dollars they get.  If they just hold currency, that would show up in the current account data (line 67, to be precise).  the us thinks foreigners did end up holding about $5b more in currency than they started, but that cannot finance a $180b deficit.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103165</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:19:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Could the chinese shift to ST holdings be consistent with reports that CIC was holding a significant chunk in deposits temporarily. I can't remember if this was from October or November?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could the chinese shift to ST holdings be consistent with reports that CIC was holding a significant chunk in deposits temporarily. I can&#8217;t remember if this was from October or November?</p>
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		<title>By: Macro Man</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103164</link>
		<dc:creator>Macro Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;S -- no clues on the $89b gap.&lt;/i&gt; Cough, dark matter, cough.  ;)

Seriously though, Brad, the point I was trying to raise above is that tracking capital inflows into an economy as large as the US is a Sisyphian task.  The problem, which I am sure you know better than anyone us, is that people anchor on a piece of data irrespective of its quality.

Given the errors, omissions, and ex post revisions that are part and parcel of the TIC, is it even worth publishing it monthly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>S &#8212; no clues on the $89b gap.</i> Cough, dark matter, cough.  <img src='http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Seriously though, Brad, the point I was trying to raise above is that tracking capital inflows into an economy as large as the US is a Sisyphian task.  The problem, which I am sure you know better than anyone us, is that people anchor on a piece of data irrespective of its quality.</p>
<p>Given the errors, omissions, and ex post revisions that are part and parcel of the TIC, is it even worth publishing it monthly?</p>
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		<title>By: RealThink</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2007/12/17/a-strong-october-tic-data-release-but-the-bea-s/#comment-103163</link>
		<dc:creator>RealThink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>There is no mystery: The US does NOT need to finance its current account deficit, to the extent that its currency is used as the international means of payment and third parties have a greater need thereof for their transactions, which was exactly the case in Q3.

In Q3 the price of energy and agricultural commodities was significantly higher than in Q2. Therefore China (to give an example) needed more dollars (not Treasuries, not bonds, not stocks, but hard cash) to pay for Saudi oil and Argentinian wheat and soybeans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no mystery: The US does NOT need to finance its current account deficit, to the extent that its currency is used as the international means of payment and third parties have a greater need thereof for their transactions, which was exactly the case in Q3.</p>
<p>In Q3 the price of energy and agricultural commodities was significantly higher than in Q2. Therefore China (to give an example) needed more dollars (not Treasuries, not bonds, not stocks, but hard cash) to pay for Saudi oil and Argentinian wheat and soybeans.</p>
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