Does the China investment corporation (CIC) have a coherent investment strategy?

by Brad Setser
December 30, 2007

I personally would say no.  And I am not alone.  Tan Wei of mergermarket.com reports (in the FT)

“a source familiar with the Chinese government’s thinking … who has direct access to the Chinese government officials”  …  says that until now CIC has lacked a clear strategy and will in future focus its investments in the natural resources sector.”

That jibes with Jamil Anderlini’s reporting in late December:

“Such a concentration of the country’s wealth in one entity has inevitably drawn intense interest, not just from every fund manager on the planet but also from powerful forces within the state bureaucracy.  Each of these groups has its own ideas on how the money can best be spent.”

It now seems likely – despite protests to the contrary (“The deal was struck over a matter of months rather than a few weeks”) – that the CIC’s decision to invest in Morgan Stanley wasn’t entirely the product of a careful deliberative process.   Tan Wei reports that the CIC jumped on the Morgan Stanley deal after the China Development Bank (itself soon to be recapitalized by the CIC) missed out on a big stake in Citi because it wasn’t ready to move quickly enough.  

“An insider at Citigroup revealed that the US investment bank had first approached the China Development Bank (CDB) to see if it was interested in acquiring a stake in the bank. CDB had shown strong interests in doing so, the insider said, but told Citigroup that it would need three days to make a decision because it needed, as a state-owned bank, to get government approval. At that same time, Abu Dhabi was also offered the opportunity to invest and was able to move forward with the purchase right away. The insider added that it was for this reason that CIC didn’t hesitate when approached by Morgan Stanley about acquiring a stake, having learnt from CDB’s experience that it needed to act quickly.”

Wei’s account jibes with Keith Bradsher’s story that the Morgan Stanley stake came as a surprise to the CIC’s staff.  If Wei and Bradsher are right, the decision to take a punt on Morgan Stanley sounds rather like the decision of jump at the chance to get in on Blackstone’s IPO even before China had formally set up an investment agency.  The CIC almost certainly lacks the staff needed to do much due diligence on its investments in large US financial institutions.   The balance sheet of a big US broker-dealer presumably doesn’t look all that much like the balance sheet of a big Chinese state commercial bank.

The CIC was set up in part to make sure that investment bankers pitched their best deals to Beijing.  And it sure sounds like all troubled US banks and broker-dealers are basically flying from Beijing to Singapore to the Gulf playing sovereign wealth fund against sovereign wealth fund (and in some case royal wealth funds) to try to get the best deal. Wei – citing CNBC – reports that the CIC also passed on Merrill in December.   It may get another chance in January.

But the CIC now seems a bit worried that the investment bankers whispering sweet nothings into its ear — or at least extolling the new “sophistication” of sovereign investors — are pushing deals that make more sense for the banks than for the CIC. Wei, citing a source familiar with the Chinese government's thinking:

“Outside investors lack the investment acumen to have spotted a bottom in the credit crunch but also that, in the case of China’s CIC, further investments in the US financial sector will be limited. … The source said that CIC is currently being advised on a new investment strategy which would involve diversifying away from its current focus on the US financial sector.”

For what it is worth, I picked up something similar in Beijing, pre-Morgan Stanley.    I didn’t talk to anyone at the CIC – only to people who were talking to the CIC.   And the general sense back in early in November was that the CIC wouldn’t want to risk another Blackstone, and would instead focus on portfolio investment and supporting Chinese state firms.   That was why I was surprised by the Morgan Stanley deal.  Oh well.

There clearly isn’t a consensus inside China on what the CIC should be doing.

Now though the CIC really seems tired of being pitched investment banks rather than oil wells and mines.   Or petroleum and mining companies.   Wei reports it will be investing in Sinopec's parent company to support Sinopec's expansion abroad.    

But supporting the big Chinese state mining and petroleum firms hardly seems any more coherent than a strategy of balancing the CIC’s holdings of potentially dodgy Chinese banks with potentially dodgy investment banks.   The financial performance of mining companies and Chinese banks are likely to prove to be highly correlated with China’s own growth; an investment slump in China would lead to a rise in bad loans and a fall in commodity prices.  There is a plausible case China’s investment fund should invest in strategies that are not correlated with China’s own growth, though China now has so much spare cash that it really doesn’t have to worry too much about holding some assets whose value will go down when China’s own economy slows.

The big sovereign funds of the Middle East seem to function like the family offices of some of the world’s wealthiest individuals.  They are about making the very rich even richer.  They aren’t quite private investors – the head of the fund also runs a government, and that does make them a bit different – but they also aren’t subject to the political pressure and public scrutiny typical of publicly managed money.

Norway’s government fund acts like a large conservative public pension fund or an aggressive central bank.  It has a large passive portfolio.   It isn’t in the business of doing deals – and isn’t all that keen to pay big fees to investment banks.  It is the only big sovereign fund yet to buy a big stake in a big bank.

Right now, the CIC isn’t a secretive Middle Eastern fund controlled by a single family or a transparent portfolio investor like Norway.    Rather it is a jumbled mix of different strategies.  Lex got this right back in early December:

“CIC’s mandates include promoting China’s overseas expansion and rescuing domestic banks; supporting Chinese companies’ overseas offerings and enhancing returns.”

Those goals will likely come into conflict. 

The CIC’s biggest position is its stake in three large Chinese state commercial banks  (now four — it just recapitalized China Development Bank) – and it will soon have a large stake in the Agricultural Bank of China as well.   It also has stakes in 13 domestic securities firms.

That makes the CIC a bit like Temasek.  Before Temasek went forth are starting investing abroad, it managed the government of Singapore's stake in Singapore's state firms. China though doesn’t have Singapore’s record nurturing successful national champions, at least not yet.   The CIC's big stakes in big state firms also makes the CIC a bit like SASAC – the body that manages China’s stake in non-financial state companies.    The CIC cannot manage its stakes in domestic financial firms as a purely commercial investor, solely interested in returns – not so long as China relies on the state banks to support China’s economic policy objectives, including exchange rate management.   Ironically, though, the CIC’s non-commercial strategic stakes in China’s domestic financial sector could be among the most profitable of all the CIC’s investments: there is no exchange rate risk, and it bought the state banks at book …

The banks the CIC owns also now manage a very large dollar book.  They likely will own about $300b of US and European debt by the end of the year.   Those funds are the legacy of the funds Huijin injected into the banks as part of their recapitalization, and the $137.5b (as of end-October) in swaps the PBoC seems to have done with the banks.  If the CDB – which the CIC will recapitalize – buys a stake in a large US bank, is it really different than a direct CIC stake?

The CIC also has a mandate to support Chinese firms as they go forth.   It could do so by depositing some of its foreign exchange in the accounts of the state banks it owns, and then letting the banks lend the funds to state firms looking to expand abroad.   But that is a bit too close to what the PBoC already (in effect) does; it won’t produce big returns.   The CIC seems more interested in buying into the offshore equity and bond issues of Chinese firms (though that does raise the question of whether they are really “offshore”), and perhaps co-financing big deals with big-state firms.    

Here too it is serving a strategic purpose, not just a commercial purpose.   Here too it hopes to make money – after all, China would have done far better if it had bought oil rather than dollars five years ago.  And here in particular it risks stepping on the toes of SASAC, as it too will own an equity stake in Chinese state firms if it buys into their offshore IPOs.

It also has large – 9.9% — stakes in Blackstone and Merrill.   Stakes that it acquired because either someone in the top run of China’s government (Blackstone?) or the top of the CIC (Merrill) thought they were good deals.    These stakes are small relative to the CIC’s $200b portfolio: $3b (now only a bit more than $2b) in blackstone, and $5b in Merrill.   But they are also the most high-profile and controversial part of the CIC’s portfolio.  

And by controversial I don’t mean controversial globally – the CIC’s stake in Merrill has generated less opposition, given China’s record of using its state banks for non-commercial objectives, than I expected.  They are incredibly controversial inside China.   Critics worry that China is getting taken to the cleaners by clever bankers intent on selling the CIC tainted goods.  The PBoC largely avoided US subprime; the CIC’s hasn’t avoided the LBO hangover.    And critics ask why China’s funds are being used to bail out the Street rather than support China’s development.

And finally the CIC is expected to award mandates at some point to a few external fund managers to manage an external investment portfolio.   Here it will be acting a bit like ADIA (before ADIA started doing deals with its bankers and fund managers) or the GIC (before the GIC started doing deals with its bankers and fund managers).  If it starts managing a large portfolio in-house – and starts to transparently report its actions – it will even be a bit like Norway’s government fund.

To me, these different functions fit poorly together.    In its role as an external fund manager – including its role managing the strategic stakes that it has taken in US and European financial firms – the CIC claims to be a purely commercial player.   The head of the CIC, Lou Jiwei has indicated that the CIC should be:

“a transparent, apolitical, long-term institutional investor which takes small strategic stakes in offshore institutions and makes portfolio investments through public markets.” (quoted by Anderlini, FT)

Yet in its roles managing China’s stake in China’s state banks and supporting Chinese firms as they go forth, it is supporting China’s own development policy.   And all key decisions are taken at a very high – meaning political – level.  Anderlini:

“final decisions on big deals must still be approved by state leaders, whose primary concern is the strategic interest of the nation.”

At some point, there is a risk that these competing roles could merge – with Merrill and Blackstone facing pressure, for example, to partner up with the domestic financial firms the CIC owns.   Merrill and Blackstone don’t seem all that worried by this – in part because one of the lessons of China’s recent history is that the big money is made by partnering up with the government of China.  Just ask Goldman, the CIC’s partner in ICBC …   

I wish though I knew a bit more about Morgan’s past experience with the CICC – itself now part owned by the CIC, which also is set to acquire a bit of Morgan.   What a tangled web.

The CIC may never push the foreign funds it owns to support China’s domestic financial sector.  Or it may push the foreign funds to do exactly what the foreign firms want to do, and they may get an edge because of their ties to the CIC.  Other firms certainly worry that firms part-owned by the government will have a leg up.   Sundeep Tucker:

… foreign involvement in China’s booming domestic capital markets is tightly restricted, so any deepening of a relationship with an arm of the Chinese government is seen as useful in the long journey to secure licences and approvals for new business ventures. …. Matt Austen, the head of the Asia corporate and institutional banking practice for Oliver Wyman, an industry consultant, … added: “Having such connections to the CIC is unlikely to hinder your business development in China.”

For now, the conflicts of interest intrinsic in the CIC’s owning stakes in foreign firms looking to do business with domestic firms the CIC owns and that other parts of the government regulate are currently considered a positive.  Everyone wants an edge in China.

Nonetheless, housing strategic investments designed to support China’s own development and China’s “commercial” external investment in the same institution seems like a bit of a risk to me – both to China and to the rest of the world.

And perhaps as importantly, there are advocates of each of the CIC’s current roles – supporting Chinese banks/ financial firms; supporting Chinese business as it goes forth, taking strategic stakes (whether in the hope of a home run or in the hope of generating externalities that will help China) in US and European firms and acting as a large portfolio manager – inside the CIC and inside China’s government.   

The end result seems likely to be an ongoing battle over the purpose of the CIC.  

China hasn’t really figured out what it wants to do with all its dollars and euros.  There seems to have been a consensus that it no longer made sense to hold all of its foreign exchange as reserves, but not consensus – at least not real consensus – on what else to do.

The most likely outcome of a lack of any real consensus and pressure to do something?

Some rather surprising decisions …

Post a Comment42 Comments

  • Posted by gillies

    i venture to make a guess at what is in the chinese (c i c) mind because i suspect that guesses are all that are really on offer. it is a case where ‘those who know’ don’t know -

    the chinese are not day trading on the internet, nor to make year end accounts look good, nor to generate a boom for the next election. (there isn’t one.)

    their task is best seen like that of a population of living species in a limited ecosystem. the task of such a species is to maximise their own consumption, subject to acting to maintain their ecological environment.

    i am simply offering an image or metaphor, as a useful tool for the economist. this concept puts ‘global financial imbalances’ in perspective. the earth’s atmosphere, for example, is a most unlikely and unstable mixture of gases, from the operation of such ecological laws.

    individual investors or companies can act irresponsibly. the sheer size of china and chinese potential investment makes awareness of the overall financial environment essential.
    .

  • Posted by Anonymous1

    Recipe for New Year’s Global Investment Stew:

    Combine, mix, and stir aggressively:

    A start up investment operation (essentially), a couple of hundred billion to go, almost unthinkable information asymmetry for a meeting of supply and demand, general financial market conditions unique in at least the last decade (read potentially very rare opportunities somewhere around the lower end of a falling knife), robust competition from global investment ‘peers’ already in place, an urgency of investment analysis that precludes the luxury of waiting to develop a staff function, plus a night on the town – and you have a deal – or two.

  • Posted by jest

    most of the SWFs are going to make a slew of bad investment decisions going forward. especially in the beginning as they get their feet wet. BX, C, and MS are probably just the beginning. i’d be surprised if more than 50% of their bottom fishing at these levels in US companies will be worth it.

    however, their decision to go in to resources is very shrewd, almost frighteningly shrewd. i’m not a gold bug at all, but if this report is true, things in the commodity markets will get very interesting in the next few years.

  • Posted by Stormy

    Excellent question–the central one: Is there a pattern or a purpose?

    One question I have is: Does buying a sizable chunk of some of the financial firms give China access to information…and expertise.

    Yes, it is paying the bills for recent poor subprime investments–and from a short-term view, doing so looks silly–but I am not so sure. After all, these are some of the guys that drive globalization.

  • Posted by Stormy

    Additionally, China has now increased its financial leverage…if it and Lynch & et al…cooperate.

  • Posted by bsetser

    Stormy — I am not sure China should be buying financial expertise from those now selling; their risk management seems to have left a little to be desired.

    Jest — buying financial companies on the way down is risky, and I am not sure it is something that generally risk adverse managers of public money should be doing. but I am not sure buying resource companies is a better bet — there, you are buying in at the top, or close to it.

  • Posted by Howard Richman

    Our op ed on the Chinese buyout of 10% of Morgan Stanley was just published on the Enter Stage Right website:

    http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0108/0108life.htm

  • Posted by Anonymous

    hello – The big sovereign funds of the Middle East ARE the family offices of the world’s wealthiest individuals

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    Probably the China CIC doesn’t have a coherent investment strategy, but they have too much excess US Dollar liquidity. If I remember correctly from the TIC report, the Chinese are holding roughly $400 billion US Treasury securities. For the $400 billion cash, the China CIC could purchase the entire world’s Gold mining producers with spare dollars left over. When you have that much money, it is impossible to make strategic targeted investments. While China won’t sell all of its US Treasury bonds, there has been a fairly steady decline in their US Treasury holdings to diversify into a range of other equity asset classes.

  • Posted by Guest

    This is a typical example that you complicate a very simple case. CIC did not act as your presumption, so what? It will be a real disaster that anyone could figure out how CIC invests its money.

  • Posted by Dave Chiang

    China Investment Injects $20 Billion in Policy Bank
    By Irene Shen and Chia-Peck Wong
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601089&sid=ajYrfF7JcJjQ&refer=china

    Dec. 31 (Bloomberg) — China Investment Corp., the country’s $200 billion wealth fund, will inject $20 billion into China Development Bank, as the government nears the end of a decade-long restructuring of the banking industry.

    China Investment signed an agreement today in Beijing with the so-called policy bank, which funds the nation’s public works projects, the central bank said on its Web site. The money “will increase the bank’s capital adequacy ratio significantly,” the statement said.

    China Investment, modeled on Singapore’s Temasek Holdings Pte., aims to help diversify the world’s largest foreign currency holdings. In May, it invested $3 billion for a 9.4 percent stake in New York-based Blackstone Group LP, manager of the world’s biggest buyout fund. China Investment this month invested more than $5 billion in Morgan Stanley, after the second-biggest U.S. securities firm wrote down $9.4 billion of mortgage-related debt.

  • Posted by Emmanuel

    (1) Also see this Charlie Rose interview of CIC’s Jesse Wang. While CIC may not have an overarching investment strategy, the interview suggests CIC won’t be buying controlling stakes anytime soon so it won’t arouse old-fashioned protectionism.

    (2) The balance sheet of a big US broker-dealer presumably doesn’t look all that much like the balance sheet of a big Chinese state commercial bank.

    But of course they do! There isn’t much of a difference between bad loans to SOEs and SIV assets brought on to the balance sheet. Either way, they ain’t gonna be paid ;-)

  • Posted by bsetser

    Anonymous — re: “Gulf sovereign funds are the family offices of the world’s wealthiest families”; I tend to agree. That said, there often doesn’t seem to be a clean breakdown between family money and the country’s money, so the same folks are in effect managing both pools of money. Or so it seems to me, at least for ADIA. KIA may be a bit different — as it does seem to have a pension fund aspect — even if it is controlled by the al-Sabah family.

    Guest — sure, I was surprised. But I don’t think it would be the end of the world if there was a bit more clarity about the CIC’s strategy. And I am pretty sure that its competing and no doubt conflicting missions will complicate its own decision-making, as well as send mixed messages to the world.

    DC — the available data, which has some problems, suggests that China has been buying a ton of Agencies rather than equities. Admittedly the data has gaps and I would be surprised if SAFE has a small equity portfolio. But it now holds as many agencies as treasuries. the Chinese banks also hold a ton of bonds — mostly corp bonds from what I can tell.

    thanks for the CDB link. ABC should be next. and we will see if CDB uses some of the recapitalization funds to buy a stake in merrill …

  • Posted by Ponzi Q. Globalization

    Does the China investment corporation (CIC) have a coherent investment strategy?

    1. These investment banks have some control over the location of future production, what entities are given work by lendees, and the American political system.

    2. Formally or informally, Chinese investments in investment banks gives China some control over the investment banks they have invested in.

    I’ll leave it up to the readers to draw conclusions about one aspect of CIC strategy — both in kind (easy) and in degree (difficult) — from these two facts.

  • Posted by uncle sam

    our uncle lost so much money at the race track, that we had to bail him out. the family did not want to see him on skid row, after all . . . .

    once he had the big wad of notes in his gnarled fist, a look of puzzlement came over his face.

    ‘hey what’s going on here ? you guys know nothing about horses. what’s up ? you trying to buy into my financial expertise ? ‘

    .

  • Posted by Stormy

    Brad,

    I am not particularly comfortable with my suggestion; there may indeed nothing more than random, disorganized thrusts—in short, no pattern, no guiding purpose.

    However, I found the following article from the Economic Times [ http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Is_This_As_Good_As_It_Gets/China_cautions_India_to_cut_down_the_thrust_on_globalisation/articleshow/2663284.cms ] interesting in its suggestions: China is beginning to alter its direction in terms of globalization. It cannot, as you have suggested, continue to be export-based economy, fueled by FDI. A new direction is needed. (And I do not think China is yet ready to be a consumer-based society, nor is it ready to use its new wealth to provide for its citizenry.)

    The author cites the following—all true:

    1. In terms of taxation, indigenous firms are being put on a more equal footing with foreign firms. The enormous tax advantage foreign firms enjoyed (15% for them vs 30% for indigenous firms) is narrowing.
    2. The brakes are being put on mergers with foreign firms. In short, it is becoming more difficult for foreign, wealthy firms to simply gobble up weaker indigenous firms.
    3. Brakes also are being put on how much foreign investment can be poured into key sectors.

    The key point is:
    If anything, India must learn from China’s bold move to wrest the globalisation initiative from the Western corporate empire and make the process one driven by developing nations. “It is true that the benefits of globalisation have often gone to a small coterie,” says Anantaram. In China, for instance, 85% of the profits generated by MNC-related projects go out of the country, leaving only 15% value for local stakeholders, he says. The country has not been any more successful with technology transfer, often a major reason for globalisation.

    If the giant China machine is slowly changing direction and if it is still passionate about reaching its goals as outlined by the CAS, it can do a number of things:

    1. More carefully nurture home industries.
    2. Not only increase the scope and power of its SWF but also move more directly into the foreign financial world, even if there is a cost, even if at first blush its forays seem like poor investments.

    In short, China needs to strengthen its financial reach—and by that I mean Black Stone, etc. It needs a more direct presence; it needs to become more integrated into the financial world that is powering globalization.

    Just as China was willing to weaken its home industries initially (tax advantage to FDI), so China is now willing to pay the bill to enter more directly the financial world. From China’s point of view, it considers both to be the price of admittance, the move that gives it a foothold. Once the foothold is gained, the game plan will alter. (It certainly is altering in terms of indigenous firms.)

    I realize that my logic seems tenuous but China does take the long view. It rarely thinks in terms of the short term; whereas we in the West do. We look at things under a microscope, never seeing the forest for the trees. We are too used to being “on top.”

  • Posted by Stormy

    Sorry….the paragraph following “key point” is a direct quotation. I thought blockquote would handle it.

  • Posted by bsetser

    Stormy — interesting points. No question that China’s attitude toward foreign investment and “western’ MNCs is changing; previously it was the more the better. Now China is a bit less convinced its needs more money coming in and much more interested in balancing foreign investment in china (mostly private) with chinese investment in the world (which on current terms will come mostly from the state, in various forms). That is a real change.

    I also understand the argument that in effect it is cheaper for china to buy into (over-priced) western financial firms than to try to tap their expertise by letting them come into China on advantageous terms, and that even if china loses money on some of its financial sector investments, it will get great financial skills.

    I don’t find that argument fully convincing, but that may be because I don’t quite see how China gets what it needs by buying stakes in the high-wire US financial sector.

    Why — well, a lot of what say Blackstone does isn’t rocket science. It amounts to gearing up a company’s balance sheet by reducing the total amount of equity and increasing the amount of debt, thereby increasing the return on the remaining equity. maybe their stable of managers generates some new operating efficiencies, but the core bet is that debt is cheap relative to equity so most companies should have more of it. that is a bet that makes sense in a low volatility world where you need less equity capital. it isn’t a bet that makes as much sense in a high vol world (ask citi, merrill, morgan, etc). I am not sure this kind of expertise is what china needs.

    the same with i-banks. they were making a lot of money securitizing mortgages, and then repacking the securitized mortgages into CDOs. that doesn’t look like such a great business. they made some money financing LBOs for PE shops, but likely a lot less money know than then. They make money selling options — generally bets that the world won’t be too volatile. China already supposedly knows how to do it. and they employed lots of “sophisticated” strategies — for example bettering on correlation rather than credit. But if the stories about how Morgan lost big are right, its bet on correlation (short mezz on a subprime CDO, but long super-senior — on the assumption that some housing mortgages would go bad but not too many) turned out to be a bet on housing credit, as it was long a lot more super-senior than it was short mezz. a pure directional bet (short mezz) might have been better. Goldman’s quant fund seems to have been at least in part a carry fund — basically doing the same trade as japanese housewives (long new zealand dollar). I guess the successful strategies don’t appear in the press, only the losing ones — but from what I have seen, I am not sure learning all this is worth all that much.

    There are a couple of bets that I do think are smart — betting on emerging asia v the $ for example. But the PBoC doesn’t need anyone to tell them that; the constraint on their ability to do this bet is mostly political.

    Finally, I am not sure that governments should be employing the same strategies employed by PE shops or hedge funds. governments aren’t in the same line of business. and in china’s case, it is playing with borrowed money — as the CIC and PBoC both borrow in RMB to raise their funds. Leveraging dollars bought with borrowed RMB by borrowing even more dollars increases the upside, but it also adds to the risk on the downside. Before x-mas, there was a good discussion of whether the rmb losses intrinsic in borrowing rmb to buy $ should lead SAFE/ the CIC to take more risk (win it back) or less (don’t lose more …).

    My personal view is that it would be a mistake for china to take on more risk — and rather than devoting so much energy to learning how to “trade” better in the hope of managing its huge portfolio in ways that generate higher returns (they hope), it should be spending a bit more energy trying to slow the growth in its huge portfolio, since the gains from an extra 50 bp (net of fees) on $ and euro returns will be swamped by the larger loss from holding more depreciating $ and depreciating euros.

    that though is a very normative judgment.

    I would be uncomfortable if the CIC morphed into a hedge fund or PE shop. And i rather suspect many in China would be too — there is a reason why governments (setting the oil sheikdoms aside) are usually fairly conservative investors.

  • Posted by Stormy

    Your arguments make a lot of sense to me.

    Not sure how to press the contrary position in order to see where it can go, other than to say….like Mitsubishi buying iconic pieces of the U.S. (Rockefeller Center)…but that of course was finally a loss–except for its momentary prestige value. In which case, your point is, of course made.

    On the other hand, maybe Lynch, BlackStone, Morgan Stanley have prestige value (even if they are now a bit sullied). China’s way of saying: “We have arrived.” (Your “experience” argument is convincing.)

    Interesting to look at the kind of investments some of these firms have made in China–coal plants for example (Merrill Lynch).

    Just thinking aloud. Have to think about it more.

  • Posted by Guest

    ” in china’s case, it is playing with borrowed money — as the CIC and PBoC both borrow in RMB to raise their funds. Leveraging dollars bought with borrowed RMB by borrowing even more dollars increases the upside, but it also adds to the risk on the downside.”

    This is very debatable. China’s investments from a current account surplus represent a net equity position on an international accounts basis.

  • Posted by bsetser

    True — tis a net equity position on an int. accounts basis. But the long equity position is held either by Chinese households (who save) or Chinese firms (who save) rather than the government. And since they want to hold rmb assets rather than $, they aren’t the ones investing abroad (in general). The government by contrast isn’t a big net saver (excluding the SOEs) — tho it isn’t a big net dissaver either. But it is a very large intermediary, issuing rmb debt to buy $ and euro assets.

    Consequently, the net equity position wants to be basically long rmb. the government is the want going short rmb/ long $ and euro, and it is doing so with borrowed money.

    That say contrasts with the oil exporters, where the gov does the savings and doesn’t have to borrow the funds it invests abroad from anyone.

    Of course, you could argue that the equity backing the rmb borrowing of the CIC and PBoC is effectively close to infinite, since they are backed by the government and the government can always add more equity as needed — so they don’t face a risk constraint.

    But by that logic, governments around the world should be investing in risky assets … since they are the ones best able to absorb large losses.

  • Posted by bsetser

    guest — my long-winded rebuttal aside, you do raise an interesting point. China isn’t India — it is running a large CA surplus. I think the question boils down to whether or not it matters if the domestic counterpart to the current account surplus is a large fiscal surplus.

  • Posted by Guest

    Stormy, your link doesn’t work.

    Brad, CIC does have a plan and announces it long ago, such as focus on portfolio investment and makes some deal if possible. They did say they plan to do that as soon as 2009. However, like an old saying: Plans never catch up the changes. They must feel that they don’t act now, there will be nothing left for them in a year. Is it smart or stupid? Hard to tell now. After all, CIC’s investment is a bet that the Wall street expertise can make the turnaround eventually. If the gurus on the street fail in MS, why do you think that China should learn their financial expertise? To import the credit crisis in China?

  • Posted by Ponzi Q. Globalization

    I don’t find that argument fully convincing, but that may be because I don’t quite see how China gets what it needs by buying stakes in the high-wire US financial sector.

    This may be because you are only thinking in terms of financial gains. Those who lead nations have different interests than private investors. A financial loss can be viewed as the cost of increasing ones power.

    Resources may become scarce in the not too distant future. The threat and actual use of state violence on other states may be the only way to keep the living standards of the people of the state from going down the commode. Given the current might of the American military, what strategy should China employ so that she can be an initiator of this violence and not a victim?

    The exercise of power need not be displayed in order for it to be effective. In fact, sometimes it cannot be done out in the open without causing other powers to react and lessen the effectiveness. A slow and steady increase of influence over the behavior of the United States is the only way for China to proceed. This is accomplished, in part, by buying strategic American assets. Even at a ‘loss’.

  • Posted by Stormy

    Guest–at the wrong computer. Will try to get the link to you shortly.

    Anyway….Happy New Years, everyone.

  • Posted by Stormy
  • Posted by Guest

    “I think the question boils down to whether or not it matters if the domestic counterpart to the current account surplus is a large fiscal surplus.”

    Sort of interesting to consider what constitutes leverage in the case of government investment. Oil surpluses are government saving, but the government still ‘owes’ its ‘equity’ position to the taxpayer. Perhaps not totally different than the way a central bank ‘owes’ its liabilities to note and deposit holders.

    Of course, governments don’t have well defined balance sheets that identify their ‘equity’ positions. The typical position might be negative, although not for oil exporters or China perhaps. But even fiscal surpluses are flows and not stocks in the sense of a complete balance sheet.

  • Posted by Stormy

    Looks like Merrill Lynch will need even more money from China or the Middle East

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/dec/30/merrilllynch.subprimecrisis

    Despite its woes, ML has found deep-pocketed sugar daddies.

    Maybe one way to phrase the question on the table is: Is it to China’s advantage to let ML slide into the abyss? Although I do appreciate and find value in the arguments of not pouring money into ML, I still have a nagging sense that all this is not without “pattern” or reason. ML has been a prime investor in Asia. What would be the consequences to China if ML were allowed to fail?

  • Posted by Guest

    “…with offices in 38 countries and territories and total client assets of almost $2.0 trillion… Merrill Lynch owns approximately half of BlackRock, one of the world’s largest publicly traded investment management companies, with more than $1 trillion in assets under management.”

    “…In the first nine months of 2007, [Merrill] set aside 58.1% of revenue to pay staff, up from 49.2% a year earlier… If the firm sets aside 58% of revenue to pay employees, compensation would total $12.1 billion, including about $7.3 billion for bonuses…” http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a.uEoxVHwSkw&refer=news

  • Posted by bsetser

    Stormy — Merrill would not be allowed to fail in the sense of “fail to honor its liabiltiies.” if it is not too big to fail (see northern rock … ) it is too complex to unwind. if it truly failed would default on a ton of derivatives, creating huge problems throughout the “system” as folks who thought they were hedged discovered they were not.

    what might happen in a really bad scenario is that merrill would be taken over by the us authorities — and its existing equity would be written down to zero 9or close to it). in turn the US gov would guarantee merrill’s liabilities (or finance merrill in anoter way), allowing it to continue to operate.

    see northern rock.

    in this narrow sense, new equity infusions are a way of protecting the value of existing equity and allowing merrill to avoid falling under US gov. control …

    it would be nice though if a major us bank/ broker dealer was able to raise new equity from either a democratic government accountable to its citizens or a private investor (I guess merrill did, to a degree — one fund provided a bit of money alongside temasek).

  • Posted by Guest

    “…Abu Dhabi… has quietly accumulated what’s thought to amount to $1 trillion in foreign assets in the ADIA. The low profile was encouraged when the late ruler, Sheikh Zayed bin Sultan Al Nahyan, was deeply embarrassed in 1991 by the closure of Bank of Credit and Commerce International, or BCCI, in which it held a large stake…” http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/ADIAs-Citi-deal-has-Dubai-fingerprints-9CLLE?OpenDocument?OpenDocument

    “…BCCI, which at its height was shown to hold assets of 20 billion dollars, had disguised huge losses and was insolvent. The liquidators who have recovered 75% of the lost assets blame the Bank of England for doing nothing despite knowing BCCI was poorly managed…” http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/launder/general/2004/0820fatcat.htm

    BCCI’s Relationship with Foreign Governments, Central Banks and International Organizations: http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/05foreign.htm

  • Posted by bsetser

    I personally would be surprised if ADIA has $1 trillion in assets; Rachel Ziemba and I estimated that ADIA’s portfolio is more like $650b (still huge), and the IMF has pretty clearly indicated that $900b is too high.

    I had assumed that ADIA was taking a higher profile role in part to compete with the higher profile stakes of dubai — i.e. after seeing Dubai have some success by taking strategic stakes/not just acting as a portfolio investor, it wanted to get in the game. So i had assumed a bit of rivalry with Abu Dhabi wanting to get in on Dubai’s act — and found the argument that the al-Maktoum (Dubai) and the al-Nayhan (Abu dhabi) are now coordinating/ cooperating interesting …

    the BCCI story is warning tho — government ownership hasn’t always been stabilizing.

  • Posted by gillies

    china’s investment policy may reflect the thinking of its military strategists – defensive, diverse, asymmetric capabilities.

    no way could they buy the world’s gold mining producers. (DC) they would not have bought 10 per cent of them before every gambler in town was looking for a piece of the action. the price of gold would tend to infinity as they moved in on the second 50% of the producers. that would be lunatic bunker hunt policy. they have policies something more towards the warren buffet end of the spectrum.

    ‘wall street’ now wants to guess where the chinese will plunge next. anything the c i c look at could get expensive overnight.

    so there is only one way to buy up the world – it is by a random investment ‘blind scavenger’ policy.

    - also, by buying the losers china builds in stability to the global economy. ‘wall street’ on the other hand, makes bubbles of fashionable winners and thrives on volatility.

    happy new year, friends – china thinks different.

    .

  • Posted by Guest

    I tend to agree with Ponzi Q’s take on this. In the cold light of day “A financial loss can be viewed as the cost of increasing ones power”

    I think they have weighed the risk of not investing to be greater than that of investing, in the long run. They do not desperately need more dollar reserves in China, but greater power is welcome. The Chinese haven’t been propping up US imbalances from altruistic concerns only, have they? Granted, it would be a substantial black eye for China if the value of the dollar were to plummet, but apart from the “loss” in reserves value, what more concerns would they have?

  • Posted by bsetser

    tis true that the street wants to front run the CIC, but avoiding front-running shouldn’t be the sole objective the CIC. Blind scavangers may avoid being front-run, but they also may not like what they pick up.

  • Posted by shrek

    Governments should not be in capital markets at all. The world is making a massive mistake letting governments become dominant players.

  • Posted by Guest

    “…A US probe into a proposed $2.2bn buy-out of 3Com, a network equipment supplier, by a consortium involving a Chinese company is poised to enter a decisive second phase…” http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9e589684-b89d-11dc-893b-0000779fd2ac.html

    “…The administration is facing questions from weapons experts about whether some equipment — newly authorized for export to Chinese companies — could instead end up helping China modernize its military…” http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/technology/02cnd-tech.html?ex=1356930000&en=cf97296ca31f467d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

  • Posted by Guest

    Silly. Not a whole lot of people front running when it comes to the bank stocks these days. That’s one reason why the SWFs are buying them.

  • Posted by Guest

    The Financial Tines and the Wall Street Journal feature two treatments of the same theme, investors looking to pick up bargains in companies damaged by the subprime implosion. The Financial Times discusses the interest of the Kuwait Investment Authority in acquiring stakes in financial services firms; the Journal article is aimed at retail investors that are following the footsteps of sovereign investors.

    Mr Al-Sa’ad said he intended to speed up decision-making at the KIA to take advantage of the opportunities thrown up by the crisis. “With Citi, the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority had good timing,” he said, noting that it took ADIA less than three weeks to seal its late November deal to invest $7.5bn in convertible securities in Citigroup.

  • Posted by Anonymous

    Let’s see.

    You buy about net $ 5 trillion of ‘stuff’ from the rest of the world by borrowing the same amount from them.

    You then let them buy a like amount of US treasuries and agencies as a way of investing that money back with you.

    Then because you’ve borrowed too much, you watch your domestic debts go sour and the banking system slide into the abyss as a result.

    But you don’t want them to take a small portion of that $ 5 trillion and help recapitalize the banking system.

    Good thinking.

  • Posted by a

    “Merrill would not be allowed to fail in the sense of “fail to honor its liabiltiies.” if it is not too big to fail (see northern rock … ) it is too complex to unwind. if it truly failed would default on a ton of derivatives, creating huge problems throughout the “system” as folks who thought they were hedged discovered they were not.”

    Don’t know about that. First, every counterpart bank is supposed to have systems in place where it handles the default of a major counterpart. There are limits how much one can trade with each bank, collateral exchanges, and so forth. The conviction that the U.S. will just nationalize a bank with lots of derivatives contracts means all this planning is just for naught, when the counterpart is a major American bank, because the real counterpart is Uncle Sam. Nobody in the industry thinks it is; so what do you know that they don’t?

    Secondly, I think the political appetite to nationalize a bank will be nil. Middle America, rightly I think, sees Wall Streeters as vastly overpaid. Unfortunately, the bankers in a nationalized IB will just walk, unless they are even more overpaid than usual. And any nationalization would also be basically be in the interest of other derivative players – maintaining their bonuses and jobs. They are the gainers, and few other people are. Forget all the press releases; derivatives serve little real economic purpose. So if Main Street isn’t up in arms about this, it should be.

    Thirdly, not all banks are American. The ratio of country/bank for the U.S. is pretty big. Now think of Switzerland/UBS, where the ratio is much smaller. Would Switzerland ride to the rescue of UBS? Can it? Would it want to? It would probably have to throw away a lot of tax money to do so, and it has a lot less tax money than the U.S.

  • Posted by bsetser

    a — i hope you are right and I am too cynical. Broker -dealers aren’t banks, and don’t manage insured depositors.

    On the other hand, the handling of northern rock (kind of small in the grand scheme of things) and LTCM (smaller balance sheet than a big broker dealer) suggest to me that the odds favor some kind of intervention, especially during times of broader stress.

    Guest thanks for the heads-up that KIA wants to get into the act.