Comments on: Good and bad news in the World Bank’s China Quarterly http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/ Thu, 14 Oct 2010 13:09:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anonymous http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105129 Anonymous Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:19:32 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105129 Same old refrain!! No substantive discussion except that this time it appears that the WB report findings are not quite to the liking!. Still the 'Beat China" Blog despite all pretensions to contrary. Same old refrain!! No substantive discussion except that this time it appears that the WB report findings are not quite to the liking!. Still the ‘Beat China” Blog despite all pretensions to contrary.

]]> By: low roller http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105128 low roller Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:35:06 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105128 @ elaine You are delightfully creative in your blog, and you do have a point. Our democratic system is so hostage to special interests that we have not been PRACTICAL, OPEN TO NEW IDEAS, AND DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INVESTMENT IN THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT that will bring us to technological ascendancy. All cultures have been successful when PRAGMATISM AND MERITOCRACY RULE THE LAND! The best recommendation I can give for a summation of these thoughts is a book by John Kao called "Innovation Nation". His recommendations are in line with what Elaine suggests. In it he states that Deng Xiaoping went to Singapore, saw a better way of doing things and instituted such. Maybe we should be humble and analyze all the right things that Singapore, Norway, Denmark are doing and make changes. However, the key is MERITOCRACY. If our system is so infested with special interest money that we "elect" the mentally challenged to lead our nation, we have real problems. LET US BE HUMBLE, PRAGMATIC, AND RESPECT MERIT IN ORGANIZING OUR SOCIETY. WE CAN DO THIS! THIS IS A MEME WE CAN SPREAD! IT IS COMMON SENSE, WHICH ARISTOTLE SAID IS NOT VERY COMMMON. IF WE ALL DECIDE TO SPREAD THE MEME IT WILL SUCEED!!! @ elaine
You are delightfully creative in your blog, and you do
have a point. Our democratic system is so hostage to special interests that we have not been PRACTICAL, OPEN TO NEW IDEAS, AND DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INVESTMENT IN THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT that will bring us to technological ascendancy. All cultures have been successful when PRAGMATISM AND MERITOCRACY RULE THE LAND! The best recommendation I can give for a summation of these thoughts is a book by John Kao called “Innovation Nation”. His recommendations are
in line with what Elaine suggests. In it he states that Deng Xiaoping went to Singapore, saw a better
way of doing things and instituted such. Maybe we should be humble and analyze all the right things that
Singapore, Norway, Denmark are doing and make changes.
However, the key is MERITOCRACY. If our system is so
infested with special interest money that we “elect” the mentally challenged to lead our nation, we have real problems. LET US BE HUMBLE, PRAGMATIC, AND RESPECT MERIT IN ORGANIZING OUR SOCIETY. WE CAN DO THIS! THIS IS A MEME WE CAN SPREAD! IT IS COMMON SENSE, WHICH ARISTOTLE SAID IS NOT VERY COMMMON. IF WE ALL DECIDE TO SPREAD THE MEME IT WILL SUCEED!!!

]]> By: Guest http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105127 Guest Thu, 14 Feb 2008 06:02:45 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105127 Right, the Chinese people woke up one day, after the Cultural Revolution, and collectively looked in the proverbial mirror and didn't like what they saw. So they did something about it. All fine and good. All I'm saying is what funhouse mirror are they looking at now, because what the rest of the world sees isn't what's being reflected back at the Chinese. Pointing out someones' delusions (of grandeur) might not be pleasant, but it does help one preserve their sanity. Right, the Chinese people woke up one day, after the Cultural Revolution, and collectively looked in the proverbial mirror and didn’t like what they saw. So they did something about it. All fine and good. All I’m saying is what funhouse mirror are they looking at now, because what the rest of the world sees isn’t what’s being reflected back at the Chinese. Pointing out someones’ delusions (of grandeur) might not be pleasant, but it does help one preserve their sanity.

]]> By: Twofish http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105126 Twofish Thu, 14 Feb 2008 05:10:38 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105126 Guest: Rather than make "suggestions" about what China should do, it would be more sensible to suggest that the US take the steps it could take. Personally, I don't mind that much when the World Bank, the IMF, and Western economists make suggestions about what China should do. One reason for this is that they are only suggestions. China is capable of totally ignoring the World Bank and IMF, and the nice thing about having so many people giving suggestions is that it turns out that everyone has a different idea about what China should do. Guest: Namely to cut back drastically the money wasted on funding the Pentagon and our pointless external wars. The trouble with that suggestion is that, to put it bluntly, the US public benefits from US world hegemony (or at least it thinks it does). People don't like to admit that they are willing to spend "blood for oil" or that they frankly like their nation to have world dominance but when you look at voting patterns it seems perfectly clear that this is the case. Guest: But what has China done to deserve the world's respect? Copied what others have already done, and poorly (although cheaply) at that? At some point, you just have to care about what you think about yourself, and not care so much about what other people think about you. Guest: Rather than make “suggestions” about what China should do, it would be more sensible to suggest that the US take the steps it could take.

Personally, I don’t mind that much when the World Bank, the IMF, and Western economists make suggestions about what China should do. One reason for this is that they are only suggestions. China is capable of totally ignoring the World Bank and IMF, and the nice thing about having so many people giving suggestions is that it turns out that everyone has a different idea about what China should do.

Guest: Namely to cut back drastically the money wasted on funding the Pentagon and our pointless external wars.

The trouble with that suggestion is that, to put it bluntly, the US public benefits from US world hegemony (or at least it thinks it does). People don’t like to admit that they are willing to spend “blood for oil” or that they frankly like their nation to have world dominance but when you look at voting patterns it seems perfectly clear that this is the case.

Guest: But what has China done to deserve the world’s respect? Copied what others have already done, and poorly (although cheaply) at that?

At some point, you just have to care about what you think about yourself, and not care so much about what other people think about you.

]]> By: Guest http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105125 Guest Thu, 14 Feb 2008 02:35:15 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105125 DC still suffers from the acute humiliation the Chinese have suffered at the hands of the West (and the Japanese). But what has China done to deserve the world's respect? Copied what others have already done, and poorly (although cheaply) at that? DC still suffers from the acute humiliation the Chinese have suffered at the hands of the West (and the Japanese). But what has China done to deserve the world’s respect? Copied what others have already done, and poorly (although cheaply) at that?

]]> By: Guest http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105124 Guest Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:39:52 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105124 Rather than make "suggestions" about what China should do, it would be more sensible to suggest that the US take the steps it could take. Namely to cut back drastically the money wasted on funding the Pentagon and our pointless external wars. The US needs more savings. If the public won't save then the government should. Redeploying the funds wasted on militarism into reducing the debt would be an important first step and it could begin as soon as the US government got its head cleared out and some sense put in. Of course, Washington is so rotten and brainless it is much easier to tell the Chinese how to solve our problems for us and that is most likely what we will continue to do. Rather than make “suggestions” about what China should do, it would be more sensible to suggest that the US take the steps it could take. Namely to cut back drastically the money wasted on funding the Pentagon and our pointless external wars. The US needs more savings. If the public won’t save then the government should. Redeploying the funds wasted on militarism into reducing the debt would be an important first step and it could begin as soon as the US government got its head cleared out and some sense put in. Of course, Washington is so rotten and brainless it is much easier to tell the Chinese how to solve our problems for us and that is most likely what we will continue to do.

]]> By: Twofish http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105123 Twofish Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:35:06 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105123 It's not a bad thing that so many people are worried about China, and it's probably a good thing. One reason so many people talk about China is that it actually makes a difference. The Chinese political leadership is quite open to foreign ideas and constructive criticism, much more so than the US political leadership. I think much of it is because rather large fractions of the Chinese political and economic leadership were trained in the United States, and the fact that everyone from China is trying to get into US graduate schools so that they can advance their careers gives the US a huge amount of influence. Having some of the best schools in the world is as important (and perhaps more important) in mantaining US global hegemony as having 12 aircraft carriers. It’s not a bad thing that so many people are worried about China, and it’s probably a good thing. One reason so many people talk about China is that it actually makes a difference. The Chinese political leadership is quite open to foreign ideas and constructive criticism, much more so than the US political leadership.

I think much of it is because rather large fractions of the Chinese political and economic leadership were trained in the United States, and the fact that everyone from China is trying to get into US graduate schools so that they can advance their careers gives the US a huge amount of influence. Having some of the best schools in the world is as important (and perhaps more important) in mantaining US global hegemony as having 12 aircraft carriers.

]]> By: Twofish http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105122 Twofish Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:18:01 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105122 DC: The self-interests of the Washington Elites keeps the US global hegemony project going. It certainly isn't in the economic interest of the American people to see their tax dollars wasted in Iraq or a China containment policy based on weapons aid to Taiwan. But it is, since the US taxpayer gets cheap oil, and low,, low interest rates to fund their McMansions, credit cards, and Humvees. Global hegemony has a lot of benefits for the American taxpayer. US consumers can spend, spend, spend as a result of US military and economic dominance. DC: Whether you agree or not, a new multi-polar world order is being established today among the BRIC nations of the world led by China. US global hegemony is coming to a rapid end. Whether *you* agree or not, the new multi-polar world economic order has the US remaining a major player if not *the* major player in the world system. BRIC nations are investing large amounts of money in Wall Street, and that *increases* US financial dominance rather that decreases it. It was a Wall Street investment bank that invented the term BRIC. China has no interest in conflict with the United States. As long as the US doesn't try to destabilize the Communist Party or support Taiwan independence, China has no interest in challenging US world hegemony and will continue to support US military and political dominance so that it gets access to raw materials. China really doesn't *want* to lead the world. Which is fine, since I doubt India and Russia wants China to lead the world. DC: The self-interests of the Washington Elites keeps the US global hegemony project going. It certainly isn’t in the economic interest of the American people to see their tax dollars wasted in Iraq or a China containment policy based on weapons aid to Taiwan.

But it is, since the US taxpayer gets cheap oil, and low,, low interest rates to fund their McMansions, credit cards, and Humvees. Global hegemony has a lot of benefits for the American taxpayer. US consumers can spend, spend, spend as a result of US military and economic dominance.

DC: Whether you agree or not, a new multi-polar world order is being established today among the BRIC nations of the world led by China. US global hegemony is coming to a rapid end.

Whether *you* agree or not, the new multi-polar world economic order has the US remaining a major player if not *the* major player in the world system. BRIC nations are investing large amounts of money in Wall Street, and that *increases* US financial dominance rather that decreases it. It was a Wall Street investment bank that invented the term BRIC.

China has no interest in conflict with the United States. As long as the US doesn’t try to destabilize the Communist Party or support Taiwan independence, China has no interest in challenging US world hegemony and will continue to support US military and political dominance so that it gets access to raw materials.

China really doesn’t *want* to lead the world. Which is fine, since I doubt India and Russia wants China to lead the world.

]]> By: bsetser http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105121 bsetser Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:09:04 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105121 You know, i actually don't think i offered china any advice in my post (tis pretty clear that the Chinese policy makers don't take my advice in any case). I did offer china watchers some advice -- namely to look not at the rmb/ $ but at the rmb v a broader set of currencies. but that was about it. I though would interpret my fixation with (and the gulf too, if you haven't noticed) as an indication of respect. China and the big oil exporters matter. And I treat them -- I hope -- as players that matter for the global equilibrium. You know, i actually don’t think i offered china any advice in my post (tis pretty clear that the Chinese policy makers don’t take my advice in any case). I did offer china watchers some advice — namely to look not at the rmb/ $ but at the rmb v a broader set of currencies. but that was about it.

I though would interpret my fixation with (and the gulf too, if you haven’t noticed) as an indication of respect. China and the big oil exporters matter. And I treat them — I hope — as players that matter for the global equilibrium.

]]> By: Elaine Supkis http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105120 Elaine Supkis Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:02:31 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/02/12/good-and-bad-news-in-the-world-bank-s-china/#comment-105120 http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/money_matters/2008/02/us-truck-on-fir.html Brad, just wanted you to know, I mentioned your fixation on China here in my latest article. Quote: The World Bank is STILL fretting about China. Brad Setser is always fretting about China. It is as if he were sitting in my burning truck hauling shit that is barreling downhill with flames shooting out, and he notices the Dragonmobile racing past us. 'Hey, they don't have enough chrome trim!' he yells. 'We have to explain to them how to drive their truck. We are experts!' Unquote. It really amuses me that any American economics professor or pundit still has the daring to point out what ails China. It is beyond absurd. But then, the US is always unable to see how foolish we look to the rest of the world. Our main export product seems to be naked emperors. http://elainemeinelsupkis.typepad.com/money_matters/2008/02/us-truck-on-fir.html

Brad, just wanted you to know, I mentioned your fixation on China here in my latest article.

Quote: The World Bank is STILL fretting about China. Brad Setser is always fretting about China. It is as if he were sitting in my burning truck hauling shit that is barreling downhill with flames shooting out, and he notices the Dragonmobile racing past us. ‘Hey, they don’t have enough chrome trim!’ he yells. ‘We have to explain to them how to drive their truck. We are experts!’ Unquote.

It really amuses me that any American economics professor or pundit still has the daring to point out what ails China. It is beyond absurd. But then, the US is always unable to see how foolish we look to the rest of the world. Our main export product seems to be naked emperors.

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