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	<title>Comments on: Yet more evidence relative prices matter</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/</link>
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		<title>By: China Supertrends &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Transportation costs vs. yuan rate - which is more critical to China&#8217;s trade with US?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108596</link>
		<dc:creator>China Supertrends &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Transportation costs vs. yuan rate - which is more critical to China&#8217;s trade with US?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:45:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108596</guid>
		<description>[...] of my frequent reads in the econoblogosphere is Brad Sester&#8217;s Follow the Money.  In a recent post, Sester covered the topic of a June 13 Wall Street Journal article that posits transportation costs [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of my frequent reads in the econoblogosphere is Brad Sester&#8217;s Follow the Money.  In a recent post, Sester covered the topic of a June 13 Wall Street Journal article that posits transportation costs [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108592</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 17:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108592</guid>
		<description>I agree with anon.

There also may have been a second factor at play.   A fall in interest rates associated with the rise in central bank purchases of treasuries and agencies would tend to push up the price of all interest sensitive assets, including homes.   If new homes can be produced at a lower price that would pull prices back down -- but there are lags, and in some places new supply is constrained.   the rise in home prices in turn would reduce losses on the generation of risky loans made just before the rise in prices.  a borrower that got into financial trouble (say lost a job) could sell the home and pay off the mortgage and perhaps even pocket some cash in a rising market.  Lower than expected losses entered into the models used to price/ value potentially risky securities -- and contributed to the compression in credit spreads in the mortgage space.

you can argue that markets should be forward looking and recognize that a one off rise in prices increases the risk of subsequent loans barring further price rises, but well, that doesn&#039;t seem to be how the market thought.  remember all the talk about how home prices never fall on a nation-wide basis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with anon.</p>
<p>There also may have been a second factor at play.   A fall in interest rates associated with the rise in central bank purchases of treasuries and agencies would tend to push up the price of all interest sensitive assets, including homes.   If new homes can be produced at a lower price that would pull prices back down &#8212; but there are lags, and in some places new supply is constrained.   the rise in home prices in turn would reduce losses on the generation of risky loans made just before the rise in prices.  a borrower that got into financial trouble (say lost a job) could sell the home and pay off the mortgage and perhaps even pocket some cash in a rising market.  Lower than expected losses entered into the models used to price/ value potentially risky securities &#8212; and contributed to the compression in credit spreads in the mortgage space.</p>
<p>you can argue that markets should be forward looking and recognize that a one off rise in prices increases the risk of subsequent loans barring further price rises, but well, that doesn&#8217;t seem to be how the market thought.  remember all the talk about how home prices never fall on a nation-wide basis.</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108585</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 13:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108585</guid>
		<description>“They do not fit the theory that PBoC buying of treasuries was responsible for narrower spread product.&quot;

You distort the premise of the argument. Nobody said this. PBOC behaviour alone does not determine all bond market pricing.

Concentrated buying of treasuries and agencies by PBOC caused yields to decline in treasuries and agencies, relative to what they would have been.

Concentrated buying of treasuries and agencies by PBOC caused a scarcity of such product available for private sector investment.

Scarcity of treasury and agency product for private sector buying caused the private sector to seek the closest substitutes where it could find them. This created greater demand for credit risk products than would otherwise be the case, starting with the lowest risk product. Dealers assisted in creating lower risk credit with various forms of financial engineering. This effect rippled through the credit pricing spectrum.

Most importantly, at the same time, the general macroeconomic outlook for credit risk was unusually optimistic.

So the correct conclusion is that, notwithstanding the downward pressure put on the general level of interest rates due to PBOC demand for treasuries and agencies, credit spreads still compressed, due to high private sector demand for near substitutes for treasuries and agencies, a buoyant credit risk outlook, and Wall Street engineering.

There&#039;s nothing inconsistent with both trends happening at once. Both put concentrated demand pressure on two different sectors of the market. There&#039;s nothing to say that the pricing of risky credit can&#039;t improve at the same time as the pricing of risk free credit, or that it can&#039;t improve at a faster absolute basis point pace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“They do not fit the theory that PBoC buying of treasuries was responsible for narrower spread product.&#8221;</p>
<p>You distort the premise of the argument. Nobody said this. PBOC behaviour alone does not determine all bond market pricing.</p>
<p>Concentrated buying of treasuries and agencies by PBOC caused yields to decline in treasuries and agencies, relative to what they would have been.</p>
<p>Concentrated buying of treasuries and agencies by PBOC caused a scarcity of such product available for private sector investment.</p>
<p>Scarcity of treasury and agency product for private sector buying caused the private sector to seek the closest substitutes where it could find them. This created greater demand for credit risk products than would otherwise be the case, starting with the lowest risk product. Dealers assisted in creating lower risk credit with various forms of financial engineering. This effect rippled through the credit pricing spectrum.</p>
<p>Most importantly, at the same time, the general macroeconomic outlook for credit risk was unusually optimistic.</p>
<p>So the correct conclusion is that, notwithstanding the downward pressure put on the general level of interest rates due to PBOC demand for treasuries and agencies, credit spreads still compressed, due to high private sector demand for near substitutes for treasuries and agencies, a buoyant credit risk outlook, and Wall Street engineering.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s nothing inconsistent with both trends happening at once. Both put concentrated demand pressure on two different sectors of the market. There&#8217;s nothing to say that the pricing of risky credit can&#8217;t improve at the same time as the pricing of risk free credit, or that it can&#8217;t improve at a faster absolute basis point pace.</p>
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		<title>By: RebelEconomist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108577</link>
		<dc:creator>RebelEconomist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 23:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108577</guid>
		<description>Anon, I do not dispute the facts, but I am pointing out that they do not fit the theory that PBoC buying of treasuries was responsible for narrower spread product.  It is hard to see why PBoC activity alone should move the price of what they were buying less than the price of its substitutes.

An alternative theory which seems to fit the facts better, however, is that a US-generated (eg CDO driven) boom in demand for spread product encouraged more borrowing and more imports of consumer goods.  Given the PBoC&#039;s currency peg, this led them to intervene.

Perhaps the Governor of the Bank of Canada is wrong!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon, I do not dispute the facts, but I am pointing out that they do not fit the theory that PBoC buying of treasuries was responsible for narrower spread product.  It is hard to see why PBoC activity alone should move the price of what they were buying less than the price of its substitutes.</p>
<p>An alternative theory which seems to fit the facts better, however, is that a US-generated (eg CDO driven) boom in demand for spread product encouraged more borrowing and more imports of consumer goods.  Given the PBoC&#8217;s currency peg, this led them to intervene.</p>
<p>Perhaps the Governor of the Bank of Canada is wrong!</p>
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		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108575</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108575</guid>
		<description>&quot;So, despite the fact that PBoC bought treasuries, spread product yields fell MORE than treasury yields (ie spreads narrowed)?&quot;

Both are facts. Not sure how to respond to doubts about facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So, despite the fact that PBoC bought treasuries, spread product yields fell MORE than treasury yields (ie spreads narrowed)?&#8221;</p>
<p>Both are facts. Not sure how to respond to doubts about facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Alessandro</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108574</link>
		<dc:creator>Alessandro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 22:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108574</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry Brad, do you have the links handy? The site search on UBS and ISI sites and even the mighty Google didn&#039;t help me.

The reason I&#039;m asking is to see who benefits from yuan inflation. In the US and Europe the newly printed money goes to the government and to the banks giving them the (unfair) monetary inflation benefit. If the PBoC hands the newly printed money to the US importer who uses it to buy for-export goods, those who benefit from monetary inflation are the foreign customers and the Chinese exporters. Very strange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry Brad, do you have the links handy? The site search on UBS and ISI sites and even the mighty Google didn&#8217;t help me.</p>
<p>The reason I&#8217;m asking is to see who benefits from yuan inflation. In the US and Europe the newly printed money goes to the government and to the banks giving them the (unfair) monetary inflation benefit. If the PBoC hands the newly printed money to the US importer who uses it to buy for-export goods, those who benefit from monetary inflation are the foreign customers and the Chinese exporters. Very strange.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108573</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108573</guid>
		<description>DC -- the rmb hasn&#039;t appreciated against most currencies, so it isn&#039;t a surprise that Chinese export growth remains strong.   CHinese export growth to europe is exceptionally strong right now.  that seems entirely a product of the enormous depreciation of the rmb against the euro over the past five years.  China&#039;s may export growth was very very strong.  Some of that is a byproduct of more working days this may than last may (See the previous thread).  Some though is a reflection of the impact of the RMB&#039;s depreciation against much of the world.  as you note, chinese exports to the uS aren&#039;t growing as fast as before -- as one would expect if exchange rates (plus slow us growth) are having an impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC &#8212; the rmb hasn&#8217;t appreciated against most currencies, so it isn&#8217;t a surprise that Chinese export growth remains strong.   CHinese export growth to europe is exceptionally strong right now.  that seems entirely a product of the enormous depreciation of the rmb against the euro over the past five years.  China&#8217;s may export growth was very very strong.  Some of that is a byproduct of more working days this may than last may (See the previous thread).  Some though is a reflection of the impact of the RMB&#8217;s depreciation against much of the world.  as you note, chinese exports to the uS aren&#8217;t growing as fast as before &#8212; as one would expect if exchange rates (plus slow us growth) are having an impact.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108572</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108572</guid>
		<description>Alessandro -- i generally use the data from UBS (which will be updated soon) or from GEne Ma (ISI).  Goldman also has a good data series.  the yuan issued in exchange for $ remain in yuan tho; the challenge is to convince holders of yuan cash to accept an interest paying yuan assets in the sterilization process.

Rebel.  I agree with Anon.  Canada&#039;s central bank governor has made a similar argument as well.  the invested yield curve of 05-06 in particular generated a lot of demand by private actors for spread products, as you couldn&#039;t make money borrowing short and lending long without taking credit risk.  This is when SIVs and the like really took off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alessandro &#8212; i generally use the data from UBS (which will be updated soon) or from GEne Ma (ISI).  Goldman also has a good data series.  the yuan issued in exchange for $ remain in yuan tho; the challenge is to convince holders of yuan cash to accept an interest paying yuan assets in the sterilization process.</p>
<p>Rebel.  I agree with Anon.  Canada&#8217;s central bank governor has made a similar argument as well.  the invested yield curve of 05-06 in particular generated a lot of demand by private actors for spread products, as you couldn&#8217;t make money borrowing short and lending long without taking credit risk.  This is when SIVs and the like really took off.</p>
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		<title>By: Alessandro</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108570</link>
		<dc:creator>Alessandro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108570</guid>
		<description>Brad, are there public data or estimates about the PBoC balance sheet and about China open market operations? (the English section of the PBoB web site is up to 2004!)

I&#039;m particularly interested on a measure of how much they actually print and how many of newly printed yuan end up the FX market in exchange of dollars.

TIA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad, are there public data or estimates about the PBoC balance sheet and about China open market operations? (the English section of the PBoB web site is up to 2004!)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m particularly interested on a measure of how much they actually print and how many of newly printed yuan end up the FX market in exchange of dollars.</p>
<p>TIA</p>
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		<title>By: RebelEconomist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108569</link>
		<dc:creator>RebelEconomist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 20:57:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/06/13/yet-more-evidence-relative-prices-matter/#comment-108569</guid>
		<description>Anon,

So, despite the fact that PBoC bought treasuries, spread product yields fell MORE than treasury yields (ie spreads narrowed)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anon,</p>
<p>So, despite the fact that PBoC bought treasuries, spread product yields fell MORE than treasury yields (ie spreads narrowed)?</p>
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