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	<title>Comments on: Four points on the US May trade data</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/</link>
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		<title>By: Rien Huizer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110034</link>
		<dc:creator>Rien Huizer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110034</guid>
		<description>Movie guy,

Intriguing stuff. One would expect those mythical speculators to fold and flee..
The US consumer could use a little oil frugality, but why would he do that now? Consumers act when it is too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Movie guy,</p>
<p>Intriguing stuff. One would expect those mythical speculators to fold and flee..<br />
The US consumer could use a little oil frugality, but why would he do that now? Consumers act when it is too late.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110032</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110032</guid>
		<description>Movie Guy -- funny thing is, I just reviewed a paper by jaffe (at her request).   I stand by my comment tho.   The baker institute argument is consistent with a 3-5% y/y decline in import volumes.   It isn&#039;t consistent with a 10% m/m fall (Which produces a 15% y/y decline ... ).    Clearly, I don&#039;t drive frequently, so i don&#039;t have your anecdotal evidence -- but there existing data series didn&#039;t suggest this kind of drop.   Some drop yes, but not this kind of drop.   Remember the consensus among analysts was that the trade deficit would rise b/c of a higher oil import bill.

DC -- ummm, in order to keep the RMB down, China is bailing out the world, and in particular the deregulated financial institutions that you so dislike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Movie Guy &#8212; funny thing is, I just reviewed a paper by jaffe (at her request).   I stand by my comment tho.   The baker institute argument is consistent with a 3-5% y/y decline in import volumes.   It isn&#8217;t consistent with a 10% m/m fall (Which produces a 15% y/y decline &#8230; ).    Clearly, I don&#8217;t drive frequently, so i don&#8217;t have your anecdotal evidence &#8212; but there existing data series didn&#8217;t suggest this kind of drop.   Some drop yes, but not this kind of drop.   Remember the consensus among analysts was that the trade deficit would rise b/c of a higher oil import bill.</p>
<p>DC &#8212; ummm, in order to keep the RMB down, China is bailing out the world, and in particular the deregulated financial institutions that you so dislike.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Chiang</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110031</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Chiang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110031</guid>
		<description>In China, 200 million people still subsist in rural poverty with 15 million living in dire poverty. It is well known throughout poorer 3rd world nations that the most basic Human Right of obtaining food, water, and clothing is completely ignored by the US Treasury controlled IMF which has imposed structural reforms on numerous developing nations for the benefit of Western bankers while impoverishing billions of people. In Indonesia, under the Washington Consensus policy prescription, the IMF eliminated food and fuel subsidies for the poor touching off riots that has left thousands dead.  EDITED HERE BY THE MODERATOR. Surely Brad, it represents a Human Rights tragedy to displace and further impoverish billions of people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In China, 200 million people still subsist in rural poverty with 15 million living in dire poverty. It is well known throughout poorer 3rd world nations that the most basic Human Right of obtaining food, water, and clothing is completely ignored by the US Treasury controlled IMF which has imposed structural reforms on numerous developing nations for the benefit of Western bankers while impoverishing billions of people. In Indonesia, under the Washington Consensus policy prescription, the IMF eliminated food and fuel subsidies for the poor touching off riots that has left thousands dead.  EDITED HERE BY THE MODERATOR. Surely Brad, it represents a Human Rights tragedy to displace and further impoverish billions of people.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Chiang</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110030</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Chiang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110030</guid>
		<description>Brad,

Is it really so difficult for anyone to comprehend that when Hank Paulson says that his monetary policy advise is for the benefit of the Chinese people, it is actually for the exclusive benefit of Goldman Sachs and company. Does China need US style financial deregulation for a subprime fiasco?  Paulson is on record accusing the Chinese of trade cheating by maintaining a fixed currency peg. Nothing could be further from the truth.  EDITED HERE BY MODERATOR.   The RMB revaluation has been a disaster for the labor intensive textile industries in Guangdong province; over 50% will shutdown production within a couple years. It is not China&#039;s responsibility to bailout the rest of the world, especially since US government policy is exclusionary to Chinese foreign economic interests in Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>Is it really so difficult for anyone to comprehend that when Hank Paulson says that his monetary policy advise is for the benefit of the Chinese people, it is actually for the exclusive benefit of Goldman Sachs and company. Does China need US style financial deregulation for a subprime fiasco?  Paulson is on record accusing the Chinese of trade cheating by maintaining a fixed currency peg. Nothing could be further from the truth.  EDITED HERE BY MODERATOR.   The RMB revaluation has been a disaster for the labor intensive textile industries in Guangdong province; over 50% will shutdown production within a couple years. It is not China&#8217;s responsibility to bailout the rest of the world, especially since US government policy is exclusionary to Chinese foreign economic interests in Africa, the Middle East, and Latin America,</p>
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		<title>By: Movie Guy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110025</link>
		<dc:creator>Movie Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 07:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110025</guid>
		<description>By May, the decline in U.S. demand was well underway and growing as overall petroleum products usage was seasonally down (for other products demand) absent the normal  rise in transportation demand which did not occur for obvious reasons.  It was already clear that U.S. consumers were tightening their belts...hard.  At the same time, U.S. domestic crude oil production was climbing quickly.  The end result was the 10.5% decline in imported crude.  

People were staying close to home in May.  They were in a state of shock by then.  And all of this was observable in vehicular traffic counts across the nation.  

By mid-May, you could roll through downtown Atlanta at 9 PM and not worry about traffic.  Prior to that time, I would walk my muscle car trailer around Atlanta on I-285 headed north or south unless it was after 1 AM.  I don&#039;t have to go around Atlanta anymore.  No need.  The traffic is gone by 9 PM.  So, I&#039;m saving 20 minutes travel time as early as 9 PM.  And some Atlanta car lovers along with their children have the opportunity to see &#039;70 Olds 442 convertibles roll by them before they&#039;re all sold to foreign buyers.  

Threw that closer in for fun...  

No, I wasn&#039;t surprised Brad.  I&#039;m travelling the highways too much right now to not have noticed the remarkable decline in vehicle traffic other than the normal rushhour exodus.  Beyond that, the traffic was simply not there in the Southeast (as an example).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By May, the decline in U.S. demand was well underway and growing as overall petroleum products usage was seasonally down (for other products demand) absent the normal  rise in transportation demand which did not occur for obvious reasons.  It was already clear that U.S. consumers were tightening their belts&#8230;hard.  At the same time, U.S. domestic crude oil production was climbing quickly.  The end result was the 10.5% decline in imported crude.  </p>
<p>People were staying close to home in May.  They were in a state of shock by then.  And all of this was observable in vehicular traffic counts across the nation.  </p>
<p>By mid-May, you could roll through downtown Atlanta at 9 PM and not worry about traffic.  Prior to that time, I would walk my muscle car trailer around Atlanta on I-285 headed north or south unless it was after 1 AM.  I don&#8217;t have to go around Atlanta anymore.  No need.  The traffic is gone by 9 PM.  So, I&#8217;m saving 20 minutes travel time as early as 9 PM.  And some Atlanta car lovers along with their children have the opportunity to see &#8216;70 Olds 442 convertibles roll by them before they&#8217;re all sold to foreign buyers.  </p>
<p>Threw that closer in for fun&#8230;  </p>
<p>No, I wasn&#8217;t surprised Brad.  I&#8217;m travelling the highways too much right now to not have noticed the remarkable decline in vehicle traffic other than the normal rushhour exodus.  Beyond that, the traffic was simply not there in the Southeast (as an example).</p>
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		<title>By: Movie Guy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110024</link>
		<dc:creator>Movie Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 06:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110024</guid>
		<description>Brad Setser - &lt;I&gt;&quot;movie guy — the fall in nominal oil imports was a surprise. the scale of the fall in imported volumes was also a surprise, tho the fact that volumes are falling is no surprise. bottom line:most analysts expected the $10 a barrel rise in price in a month to overwhelm the fall in volume.&quot;&lt;/I&gt;

It may have a surprise to you and some others, but it shouldn&#039;t have been.  It wasn&#039;t a surprise to the Baker Institute back on 11 June 2008 when the following was stated in Congressional testimony:  

Testimony of Amy Myers Jaffe
Baker Institute, Rice University
to the Select Committee on Energy Independence 
and Global Warming, U.S. House of Representatives
&lt;B&gt;June 11, 2008&lt;/B&gt; 
http://www.bakerinstitute.org/publications/JAFFECongressionalTestimony11jun08-final.pdf

Excerpt: 

&quot;It has become a standard mantra in the oil market that higher oil prices are being driven primarily by the ongoing rise in oil demand and that this rise in demand is defying the normal impact of rising prices given the strength of developing economies like China and India. However, &lt;B&gt;in reality, demand has responded strongly to high prices and is currently falling significantly. April U.S. oil demand is running 3.5 percent below a year ago (first quarter was down 4.3 percent) while EU-15 demand has seen a 1.1 percent drop against the spring of 2007. Oil demand in Pacific industrialized nations (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand) is also down over 4 percent. Overall, while Chinese demand remains healthy with stockpiling to prevent shortages ahead of the Olympics, global oil demand is still faltering, growing only by 0.4 percent so far this year or a small gain of 350,000 b/d (compared to the 2.5 million b/d gain predicted). The argument that Asian consumers are shielded against oil price impacts by generous government subsidies is losing water, given that India, Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have all been raising government-set domestic fuel prices. In China, demand for unregulated products –naphtha and fuel oil- fell 2 percent in the first quarter of 2008, a sign of what will come if China eases its other fuel subsidies after the Olympics.&quot;&lt;/B&gt;

Maybe you should consult the Baker Institute so that you won&#039;t be surprised next month.  I&#039;m confident that Jaffe and others will keep you straight.  

Nothing about the data should have been a surprise to those paying close attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad Setser &#8211; <i>&#8220;movie guy — the fall in nominal oil imports was a surprise. the scale of the fall in imported volumes was also a surprise, tho the fact that volumes are falling is no surprise. bottom line:most analysts expected the $10 a barrel rise in price in a month to overwhelm the fall in volume.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>It may have a surprise to you and some others, but it shouldn&#8217;t have been.  It wasn&#8217;t a surprise to the Baker Institute back on 11 June 2008 when the following was stated in Congressional testimony:  </p>
<p>Testimony of Amy Myers Jaffe<br />
Baker Institute, Rice University<br />
to the Select Committee on Energy Independence<br />
and Global Warming, U.S. House of Representatives<br />
<b>June 11, 2008</b><br />
<a href="http://www.bakerinstitute.org/publications/JAFFECongressionalTestimony11jun08-final.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.bakerinstitute.org/publications/JAFFECongressionalTestimony11jun08-final.pdf</a></p>
<p>Excerpt: </p>
<p>&#8220;It has become a standard mantra in the oil market that higher oil prices are being driven primarily by the ongoing rise in oil demand and that this rise in demand is defying the normal impact of rising prices given the strength of developing economies like China and India. However, <b>in reality, demand has responded strongly to high prices and is currently falling significantly. April U.S. oil demand is running 3.5 percent below a year ago (first quarter was down 4.3 percent) while EU-15 demand has seen a 1.1 percent drop against the spring of 2007. Oil demand in Pacific industrialized nations (Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Australia and New Zealand) is also down over 4 percent. Overall, while Chinese demand remains healthy with stockpiling to prevent shortages ahead of the Olympics, global oil demand is still faltering, growing only by 0.4 percent so far this year or a small gain of 350,000 b/d (compared to the 2.5 million b/d gain predicted). The argument that Asian consumers are shielded against oil price impacts by generous government subsidies is losing water, given that India, Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka have all been raising government-set domestic fuel prices. In China, demand for unregulated products –naphtha and fuel oil- fell 2 percent in the first quarter of 2008, a sign of what will come if China eases its other fuel subsidies after the Olympics.&#8221;</b></p>
<p>Maybe you should consult the Baker Institute so that you won&#8217;t be surprised next month.  I&#8217;m confident that Jaffe and others will keep you straight.  </p>
<p>Nothing about the data should have been a surprise to those paying close attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Free_market</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110022</link>
		<dc:creator>Free_market</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 05:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110022</guid>
		<description>Only way to make pegged nations to float the currency is by adding reserves of physical yuan. Inflation in china will skyrocket since most transactions are cash and force them to revalue yuan or kill the economy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only way to make pegged nations to float the currency is by adding reserves of physical yuan. Inflation in china will skyrocket since most transactions are cash and force them to revalue yuan or kill the economy</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110016</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110016</guid>
		<description>DC -- I probably shouldn&#039;t have ignored your initial points, given how outlandish they are. I would be very surprised if Paulson (a sinophile) or Bernanke (a diplomat) used the language you identified.   And by far the biggest incentive for foreign manufacturers to locate production in China has been the undervalued RMB.   US firms respond to incentives.  I&#039;ll grant that the current US tax law creates some perverse incentives, but I would certainly expect that you too would recognize that holding the rMB down encourages production in China.

And I find it a bit hard to take complaints about how China&#039;s exports are getting squeezed when the latest quarterly data shows a positive contribution from net exports to Chinese GDP growth and exports are up 18% y/y.   Moreover, the biggest impediment to  more job creation in china is likely the cheap cost of capital (negative real rates) and resulting substitution of capital for labor.   And that stems directly from China&#039;s policy of holding the exchange rate down -- which rather clearly does a better job of supporting the export sector than creating jobs.  I would suspect that Chinese job growth would go up if China spent the funds now used to support the export sector on a domestic public works program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC &#8212; I probably shouldn&#8217;t have ignored your initial points, given how outlandish they are. I would be very surprised if Paulson (a sinophile) or Bernanke (a diplomat) used the language you identified.   And by far the biggest incentive for foreign manufacturers to locate production in China has been the undervalued RMB.   US firms respond to incentives.  I&#8217;ll grant that the current US tax law creates some perverse incentives, but I would certainly expect that you too would recognize that holding the rMB down encourages production in China.</p>
<p>And I find it a bit hard to take complaints about how China&#8217;s exports are getting squeezed when the latest quarterly data shows a positive contribution from net exports to Chinese GDP growth and exports are up 18% y/y.   Moreover, the biggest impediment to  more job creation in china is likely the cheap cost of capital (negative real rates) and resulting substitution of capital for labor.   And that stems directly from China&#8217;s policy of holding the exchange rate down &#8212; which rather clearly does a better job of supporting the export sector than creating jobs.  I would suspect that Chinese job growth would go up if China spent the funds now used to support the export sector on a domestic public works program.</p>
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		<title>By: Rien Huizer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110015</link>
		<dc:creator>Rien Huizer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110015</guid>
		<description>Don,

DC: politicians need to posture  (preferably exotic foreigners) to partially satisfy public desire for action. Verbal, inconsequential abuse of people without specific authority is the simplest form. Like the POBC head who wants to learn from &quot;US mistakes&quot; . Be glad it is only words..

Don, the real terms issue is indeed interesting. However probably much US of imports is invoiced (and priced, more importantly) in USD. How much can the Chinese manufacturers squeeze their production cost. On top of that, container rates have risen considerably. No so long ago, empty containers (made in China at about (2002) USD 2-3000 each) were often simply left in Long Beach. Now they are shipped back with bagged (ready to distribute)  bulk goods. That reduces shipping cost (over the return voyage) a little, but not for long, with these fuel prices. So I guess we should give the volume numbers a little time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don,</p>
<p>DC: politicians need to posture  (preferably exotic foreigners) to partially satisfy public desire for action. Verbal, inconsequential abuse of people without specific authority is the simplest form. Like the POBC head who wants to learn from &#8220;US mistakes&#8221; . Be glad it is only words..</p>
<p>Don, the real terms issue is indeed interesting. However probably much US of imports is invoiced (and priced, more importantly) in USD. How much can the Chinese manufacturers squeeze their production cost. On top of that, container rates have risen considerably. No so long ago, empty containers (made in China at about (2002) USD 2-3000 each) were often simply left in Long Beach. Now they are shipped back with bagged (ready to distribute)  bulk goods. That reduces shipping cost (over the return voyage) a little, but not for long, with these fuel prices. So I guess we should give the volume numbers a little time.</p>
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		<title>By: FTX</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110011</link>
		<dc:creator>FTX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jul 2008 23:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/07/11/four-points-on-the-us-may-trade-data/#comment-110011</guid>
		<description>Hi Brad, long time no post (objected to registering on RGE) and still much appreciate your work.

The fall in net imports of crude + petroleum products has been pretty dramatic this year in volume terms, and today&#039;s numbers showed this is continuing.

One aspect worth noting (and I realise that this is more a strategic as opposed to an economic consideration) is the changing concentration of those net imports. The EIA haven&#039;t put up May numbers yet, but in April net petroleum imports were down 1,085,000 bpd vs the same month last year. However, if you split this you find OPEC imports were up 254,000 bpd and non-OPEC imports were down 1,339,000 bpd.

Increasingly therefore, even though net imports are declining, OPEC nations are gaining a far greater share of petroleum imports, and former stalwarts such as Mexico, the U.K. and Norway are playing an ever reducing role as their oil production declines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brad, long time no post (objected to registering on RGE) and still much appreciate your work.</p>
<p>The fall in net imports of crude + petroleum products has been pretty dramatic this year in volume terms, and today&#8217;s numbers showed this is continuing.</p>
<p>One aspect worth noting (and I realise that this is more a strategic as opposed to an economic consideration) is the changing concentration of those net imports. The EIA haven&#8217;t put up May numbers yet, but in April net petroleum imports were down 1,085,000 bpd vs the same month last year. However, if you split this you find OPEC imports were up 254,000 bpd and non-OPEC imports were down 1,339,000 bpd.</p>
<p>Increasingly therefore, even though net imports are declining, OPEC nations are gaining a far greater share of petroleum imports, and former stalwarts such as Mexico, the U.K. and Norway are playing an ever reducing role as their oil production declines.</p>
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