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	<title>Comments on: Yes, Virginia – Creditors do sometimes get a vote  …</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/</link>
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		<title>By: Brad Setser: Follow the Money &#187; Blog Archive &#187; It seems like so long ago &#8230; documenting the role foreign central banks played in the US decision to backstop the Agencies</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-113820</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Setser: Follow the Money &#187; Blog Archive &#187; It seems like so long ago &#8230; documenting the role foreign central banks played in the US decision to backstop the Agencies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 20:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-113820</guid>
		<description>[...] testimony is consistent with the story I told based on the Fed&#8217;s custodial holdings, namely that central banks weren&#8217;t willing to trust Paulson&#8217;s bazooka. And they seem to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] testimony is consistent with the story I told based on the Fed&#8217;s custodial holdings, namely that central banks weren&#8217;t willing to trust Paulson&#8217;s bazooka. And they seem to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marlow&#8217;s Listener &#8250; Brad Setser: Follow the Money » Blog Archive » Yes, Virginia – Creditors do sometimes get a vote …</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112179</link>
		<dc:creator>Marlow&#8217;s Listener &#8250; Brad Setser: Follow the Money » Blog Archive » Yes, Virginia – Creditors do sometimes get a vote …</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 06:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112179</guid>
		<description>[...] Which mattress?   This was written by admin. Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2008, at 11:40 pm. Filed under Malthus. Tagged GSE. Bookmark the permalink. Follow comments here with the RSS feed. Post a comment or leave a trackback. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Which mattress?   This was written by admin. Posted on Wednesday, September 3, 2008, at 11:40 pm. Filed under Malthus. Tagged GSE. Bookmark the permalink. Follow comments here with the RSS feed. Post a comment or leave a trackback. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bond investor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112178</link>
		<dc:creator>Bond investor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 05:53:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112178</guid>
		<description>Brad, the mortgage principal paydowns that FNMA and FHLMC receive total ~$25 B per month anyway. So they won&#039;t need to refinance as much debt as you suggest, and if they can keep getting the ever-decreasing amounts done, even at widening spreads, then they can avoid further pain from the liquidity crisis. Basically, I&#039;m talking about an involuntary reduction in the size of their portfolios through paydowns.

Hey, isn&#039;t that what Greenspan, Bush and GOP congressmen have been wanting to occur for 8 years? Maybe they&#039;ll get their wish, with the &quot;only&quot; collateral damage the demise of an orderly consumer market for mortgages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad, the mortgage principal paydowns that FNMA and FHLMC receive total ~$25 B per month anyway. So they won&#8217;t need to refinance as much debt as you suggest, and if they can keep getting the ever-decreasing amounts done, even at widening spreads, then they can avoid further pain from the liquidity crisis. Basically, I&#8217;m talking about an involuntary reduction in the size of their portfolios through paydowns.</p>
<p>Hey, isn&#8217;t that what Greenspan, Bush and GOP congressmen have been wanting to occur for 8 years? Maybe they&#8217;ll get their wish, with the &#8220;only&#8221; collateral damage the demise of an orderly consumer market for mortgages.</p>
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		<title>By: John McLeod</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112147</link>
		<dc:creator>John McLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 17:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112147</guid>
		<description>At our blog we took the FRBNY data that Reuters uses to track weekly trends in central bank net buys of treasuries and agencies.  We constructed a data set going back to when FRBNY started posting these numbers in February 2000.

The resulting charts tell a story like the one in the second chart above.  We put up those charts last Friday in an article which also included a link to the data set as a comma separated values (CVS) file.

http://housingdoom.com/2008/08/29/foreign-central-banks-and-agency-debt-2000-to-present/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At our blog we took the FRBNY data that Reuters uses to track weekly trends in central bank net buys of treasuries and agencies.  We constructed a data set going back to when FRBNY started posting these numbers in February 2000.</p>
<p>The resulting charts tell a story like the one in the second chart above.  We put up those charts last Friday in an article which also included a link to the data set as a comma separated values (CVS) file.</p>
<p><a href="http://housingdoom.com/2008/08/29/foreign-central-banks-and-agency-debt-2000-to-present/" rel="nofollow">http://housingdoom.com/2008/08/29/foreign-central-banks-and-agency-debt-2000-to-present/</a></p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112117</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 12:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112117</guid>
		<description>a -- there presumably is a difference between the rate that the agencies can afford to pay for a short period of time and the rate that they can afford over time.  with their funding costs rising as the start to accrue losses on their retained portfolio, they would face a nasty squeeze.    moreover, in order to support the mortgage market as they have over the past year, the agencies need to be able to grow their book -- not just rollover existing debt.

ndk -- i don&#039;t quite know what to say about the santiago principles, as the actual principles haven&#039;t been disclosed.   i don&#039;t have high hopes tho.  I think SWFs need to agree to something that would in effect create a SWF COFER data base, i.e. data on their aggregate currency split and bond/equity/alternatives/ perhaps commodities split.   And if the biggest firm still isn&#039;t willing to disclose its size (and the potentially fastest growing fund -- the cic -- hasn&#039;t disclosed anything yet either, including just how much fx it has bought and when from the central bank) I don&#039;t think you will get very far through this exercise.  I hope to be surprised though -- the evolution of ADIA&#039;s disclosure via its website is one test, ADIC&#039;s disclosure is another.  And I am still waiting for the CIC to match norway&#039;s transparency.

moreover, recent events suggests state banks and state firms probably warrant as much attention as SWFs, so their are lots of vehicles for state investment that won&#039;t fall within the scope of the good practices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a &#8212; there presumably is a difference between the rate that the agencies can afford to pay for a short period of time and the rate that they can afford over time.  with their funding costs rising as the start to accrue losses on their retained portfolio, they would face a nasty squeeze.    moreover, in order to support the mortgage market as they have over the past year, the agencies need to be able to grow their book &#8212; not just rollover existing debt.</p>
<p>ndk &#8212; i don&#8217;t quite know what to say about the santiago principles, as the actual principles haven&#8217;t been disclosed.   i don&#8217;t have high hopes tho.  I think SWFs need to agree to something that would in effect create a SWF COFER data base, i.e. data on their aggregate currency split and bond/equity/alternatives/ perhaps commodities split.   And if the biggest firm still isn&#8217;t willing to disclose its size (and the potentially fastest growing fund &#8212; the cic &#8212; hasn&#8217;t disclosed anything yet either, including just how much fx it has bought and when from the central bank) I don&#8217;t think you will get very far through this exercise.  I hope to be surprised though &#8212; the evolution of ADIA&#8217;s disclosure via its website is one test, ADIC&#8217;s disclosure is another.  And I am still waiting for the CIC to match norway&#8217;s transparency.</p>
<p>moreover, recent events suggests state banks and state firms probably warrant as much attention as SWFs, so their are lots of vehicles for state investment that won&#8217;t fall within the scope of the good practices.</p>
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		<title>By: A B</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112116</link>
		<dc:creator>A B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 12:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112116</guid>
		<description>Yeah sustainability could be an issue.  The Chinese factory worker makes maybe 30 cents an hour in shitty conditions and lives in a hundred person dorm.  Saving away to lend to a Joe houseflipper. Someday he or she may want his own ipod, perhaps a small room, maybe even one car for 3 families. They are not starving now but how long before they guillotine their cap- I mean Communist leaders?  The ant and the grasshopper is pure fable.  We all know an army of ants cooperating can kill a horse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah sustainability could be an issue.  The Chinese factory worker makes maybe 30 cents an hour in shitty conditions and lives in a hundred person dorm.  Saving away to lend to a Joe houseflipper. Someday he or she may want his own ipod, perhaps a small room, maybe even one car for 3 families. They are not starving now but how long before they guillotine their cap- I mean Communist leaders?  The ant and the grasshopper is pure fable.  We all know an army of ants cooperating can kill a horse.</p>
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		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112108</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 07:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112108</guid>
		<description>Naive questions here.  Is the Fed able to help in the rollover by swapping Treasuries for the GSE debt that needs to be rolled over?  How long could this last?  Long enough until Jan 2009, when the Republicants pass the ball to the Democrats?

Also, you say there is a rate at which the rollover doesn&#039;t &quot;work&quot; for the GSEs.  I think the GSEs will be willing to rollover even if it loses them (a bit of) money.  So they lose a little money, so what? What they have to avoid IMHO is a rate or an auction which indicates a lack of confidence, because then things will quickly snowball out of control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Naive questions here.  Is the Fed able to help in the rollover by swapping Treasuries for the GSE debt that needs to be rolled over?  How long could this last?  Long enough until Jan 2009, when the Republicants pass the ball to the Democrats?</p>
<p>Also, you say there is a rate at which the rollover doesn&#8217;t &#8220;work&#8221; for the GSEs.  I think the GSEs will be willing to rollover even if it loses them (a bit of) money.  So they lose a little money, so what? What they have to avoid IMHO is a rate or an auction which indicates a lack of confidence, because then things will quickly snowball out of control.</p>
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		<title>By: ndk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112105</link>
		<dc:creator>ndk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 06:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112105</guid>
		<description>Hey, Brad, think you could spare a post on the Santiago Principles just agreed by a consortium of SWF&#039;s if it&#039;s within your new purview?  I think this is pretty important stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Brad, think you could spare a post on the Santiago Principles just agreed by a consortium of SWF&#8217;s if it&#8217;s within your new purview?  I think this is pretty important stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: running bear</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112103</link>
		<dc:creator>running bear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 03:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112103</guid>
		<description>Brad, Julie..

Stealth bailout of whom/what? What is the present cost?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad, Julie..</p>
<p>Stealth bailout of whom/what? What is the present cost?</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112096</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-%e2%80%93-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-%e2%80%a6/#comment-112096</guid>
		<description>judy -- not really off topic.  i grant a lot more latitude for comments on currency markets, the financing of the us and global capital flows than for topics on other subjects, b/c i think of those topics as central to this blog.  and the USD&#039;s rally is relevant going forward to the magnitude of likely central bank flows (a weaker USD v the euro is reasonably correlated with asian reserve growth)

julieng -- i like the term &quot;stealth&quot; bailout better than my term (the quiet bailout).  i basically agree with your point, but also think there has been a meaningful reallocation away from agencies on a high frequency basis, and in this case, there is good reason to think it is more than noise. 

if others disagree, i am all ears.

i also incidentally think your point that the agencies are an inner border problem (i.e. lots of us financial institutions hold lots of agencies) is true, and i plead guilty to the charge of emphasizing the china and russia angle a bit too much.  they matter more on a flow than a stock basis.  that matters.  but it is important not to loose sight of the extensive domestic holdings of agencies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>judy &#8212; not really off topic.  i grant a lot more latitude for comments on currency markets, the financing of the us and global capital flows than for topics on other subjects, b/c i think of those topics as central to this blog.  and the USD&#8217;s rally is relevant going forward to the magnitude of likely central bank flows (a weaker USD v the euro is reasonably correlated with asian reserve growth)</p>
<p>julieng &#8212; i like the term &#8220;stealth&#8221; bailout better than my term (the quiet bailout).  i basically agree with your point, but also think there has been a meaningful reallocation away from agencies on a high frequency basis, and in this case, there is good reason to think it is more than noise. </p>
<p>if others disagree, i am all ears.</p>
<p>i also incidentally think your point that the agencies are an inner border problem (i.e. lots of us financial institutions hold lots of agencies) is true, and i plead guilty to the charge of emphasizing the china and russia angle a bit too much.  they matter more on a flow than a stock basis.  that matters.  but it is important not to loose sight of the extensive domestic holdings of agencies.</p>
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