Comments on: The CIC, the world’s best performing sovereign fund? http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/ Sat, 21 Nov 2009 16:40:10 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Q&A with Zhang Ming, Scholar at the Institute of World Economics and Politics « Oxford SWF Project http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-122078 Q&A with Zhang Ming, Scholar at the Institute of World Economics and Politics « Oxford SWF Project Sat, 10 Jan 2009 19:14:11 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-122078 [...] Monk: By some accounts, the CIC is in enviable position since most of its capital is still sitting in cash. Given the fund [...] [...] Monk: By some accounts, the CIC is in enviable position since most of its capital is still sitting in cash. Given the fund [...]

]]> By: Brad Setser: Follow the Money » Blog Archive » Sovereign loss funds … http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-120266 Brad Setser: Follow the Money » Blog Archive » Sovereign loss funds … Mon, 15 Dec 2008 05:06:39 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-120266 [...] a small fraction of that has been invested in equities and similar assets. The CIC claims to be 90% in cash — and China’s state banks mainly hold debt securities. Korea Investment Corporation: [...] [...] a small fraction of that has been invested in equities and similar assets. The CIC claims to be 90% in cash — and China’s state banks mainly hold debt securities. Korea Investment Corporation: [...]

]]> By: Q&A with Zhang Ming, Scholar at the Institute of World Economics and Politics « Oxford International Review http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-117585 Q&A with Zhang Ming, Scholar at the Institute of World Economics and Politics « Oxford International Review Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:31:26 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-117585 [...] By some accounts, the CIC is in enviable position since most of its capital is still sitting in cash. Given the fund [...] [...] By some accounts, the CIC is in enviable position since most of its capital is still sitting in cash. Given the fund [...]

]]> By: RebelEconomist http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-116851 RebelEconomist Fri, 31 Oct 2008 17:13:53 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-116851 Brad, If you are still watching this thread (not many of the comments are worth reading), I would be interested to know what you mean by "cash". My understanding of cash is that it comprises currency plus demand deposits (and maybe repo) at a commercial or central bank. Where would the CIC keep that much cash? If it is on deposit at commercial banks, then, although such an investment might not get marked down, it is not without risk in the present environment. Or do you mean a wider definition of cash, including short term investments like treasury bills? Brad,

If you are still watching this thread (not many of the comments are worth reading), I would be interested to know what you mean by “cash”. My understanding of cash is that it comprises currency plus demand deposits (and maybe repo) at a commercial or central bank. Where would the CIC keep that much cash? If it is on deposit at commercial banks, then, although such an investment might not get marked down, it is not without risk in the present environment. Or do you mean a wider definition of cash, including short term investments like treasury bills?

]]> By: killfish http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-116794 killfish Thu, 30 Oct 2008 22:41:56 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-116794 Twofish...you are an idiot. Your manner of thinking it too distorted for me to even attempt to talk sense or debate with you. Your logic is representative the last breath of a dying empire. Best of luck...you will certainly need it. Twofish…you are an idiot. Your manner of thinking it too distorted for me to even attempt to talk sense or debate with you. Your logic is representative the last breath of a dying empire. Best of luck…you will certainly need it.

]]> By: Rien Huizer http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-116778 Rien Huizer Thu, 30 Oct 2008 18:05:36 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-116778 Unless you are paid to invest according to rules like pension fund managers have, you would have been in cash etc a long time ago. I guess the Chinese State Council wanted a conservative approach with room for politically expedient investments. Nothing that would conform to silly investment management gospel. More like what hedge fund managers do with their own money.. Unless you are paid to invest according to rules like pension fund managers have, you would have been in cash etc a long time ago. I guess the Chinese State Council wanted a conservative approach with room for politically expedient investments. Nothing that would conform to silly investment management gospel. More like what hedge fund managers do with their own money..

]]> By: M&A by ARS CORPORATE - fusiones y adquisiciones » Blog Archive » Afternoon Reading: BHP-Rio–A Smaller Deal, but More Necessary? http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-116724 M&A by ARS CORPORATE - fusiones y adquisiciones » Blog Archive » Afternoon Reading: BHP-Rio–A Smaller Deal, but More Necessary? Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:59:07 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-116724 [...] Setser has an interesting post asking whether CIC is the best performing sovereign-wealth fund. The fund, of course, has made [...] [...] Setser has an interesting post asking whether CIC is the best performing sovereign-wealth fund. The fund, of course, has made [...]

]]> By: M&A by ARS CORPORATE - fusiones y adquisiciones » Blog Archive » Afternoon Reading: BHP-Rio–A Smaller Deal, but More Necessary? http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-116725 M&A by ARS CORPORATE - fusiones y adquisiciones » Blog Archive » Afternoon Reading: BHP-Rio–A Smaller Deal, but More Necessary? Thu, 30 Oct 2008 04:59:07 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-116725 [...] Setser has an interesting post asking whether CIC is the best performing sovereign-wealth fund. The fund, of course, has made [...] [...] Setser has an interesting post asking whether CIC is the best performing sovereign-wealth fund. The fund, of course, has made [...]

]]> By: Rachel http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-116717 Rachel Thu, 30 Oct 2008 03:49:13 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-116717 Couldn't one source of the CIC's 'stable returns' also reflect its stakes in the Chinese state banks? Despite the fact their profit growth is slowing and their shares have been suffering, the CIC may still be receiving dividend payments from the state banks as Li Liming suggested some months ago. They likely continue to be the CIC's best performing assets. http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/finance_investment/2008/01/31/92109_1.html But the CIC's delay in deploying capital clearly acted in its favor in terms of returns given the losses that many other swfs likely sustained. It probably helped Russia too, meaning it now has the funds to backstop the banking sector debt. Couldn’t one source of the CIC’s ’stable returns’ also reflect its stakes in the Chinese state banks? Despite the fact their profit growth is slowing and their shares have been suffering, the CIC may still be receiving dividend payments from the state banks as Li Liming suggested some months ago. They likely continue to be the CIC’s best performing assets.

http://www.eeo.com.cn/ens/finance_investment/2008/01/31/92109_1.html

But the CIC’s delay in deploying capital clearly acted in its favor in terms of returns given the losses that many other swfs likely sustained. It probably helped Russia too, meaning it now has the funds to backstop the banking sector debt.

]]> By: Twofish http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/10/29/the-cic-the-worlds-best-performing-sovereign-fund/#comment-116711 Twofish Thu, 30 Oct 2008 02:45:21 +0000 http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=3955#comment-116711 Cedric Regula Says: Everyone knows money comes from the government. And everyone is wrong. Money is created by banks. The process by which banks create money is a very fascinating process. MMcC Says: CIC has, since late spring (as far as I can tell) employed one of the global banks as a portfolio implementation advisor. That advisor’s advice, since day one, has been: “leave it all in cash.” My newspaper sources indicate a different story which is that Morgan Stanley was in the process of setting up asset allocation. http://www.china.org.cn/business/news/2008-07/01/content_15916897.htm http://www.china.org.cn/business/highlights/2008-07/09/content_15982581.htm MMcC Says: Personally, I don’t think CIC will now put money into markets until clear evidence of a bottom is in the rear-view mirror. Personally, after so many high profile missteps, I think that CIC is going to be put on an extremely short leash. Also with all of the market turmoil whatever asset allocation plans they had are now dead. Cedric Regula Says: Everyone knows money comes from the government.

And everyone is wrong. Money is created by banks. The process by which banks create money is a very fascinating process.

MMcC Says: CIC has, since late spring (as far as I can tell) employed one of the global banks as a portfolio implementation advisor. That advisor’s advice, since day one, has been: “leave it all in cash.”

My newspaper sources indicate a different story which is that Morgan Stanley was in the process of setting up asset allocation.

http://www.china.org.cn/business/news/2008-07/01/content_15916897.htm

http://www.china.org.cn/business/highlights/2008-07/09/content_15982581.htm

MMcC Says: Personally, I don’t think CIC will now put money into markets until clear evidence of a bottom is in the rear-view mirror.

Personally, after so many high profile missteps, I think that CIC is going to be put on an extremely short leash. Also with all of the market turmoil whatever asset allocation plans they had are now dead.

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