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	<title>Comments on: Secrets of SAFE: A trillion of Treasuries here, a trillion there and pretty soon you are talking about real money &#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/</link>
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		<title>By: blue bird</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-135219</link>
		<dc:creator>blue bird</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 23:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-135219</guid>
		<description>China knows well itself and the adversaries. As long as China’s economy will increase, they will stay in the status quo, but when the china’s economy growth will level at 3 percent increase or so, then will be the time to be worried. Unfortunately this will happen one day, and they will have nothing to lose but to win ….
Keep well in mind that, not long ago they were communists, and still remember the saying:
The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>China knows well itself and the adversaries. As long as China’s economy will increase, they will stay in the status quo, but when the china’s economy growth will level at 3 percent increase or so, then will be the time to be worried. Unfortunately this will happen one day, and they will have nothing to lose but to win ….<br />
Keep well in mind that, not long ago they were communists, and still remember the saying:<br />
The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: The Dollar: Down But Not Out &#124; Conservative Principles Now</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-134534</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dollar: Down But Not Out &#124; Conservative Principles Now</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 15:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-134534</guid>
		<description>[...] Notwithstanding the constant talk of the PRC’s rise, Chinese actions overwhelmingly serve to support the dollar. The RMB, a dollar alternative according to some, is as tightly pegged to the dollar as the Bahraini dinar. In their $2.1 trillion worth of reserves, the Chinese hold approximately three times as many dollars as all other currencies combined. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Notwithstanding the constant talk of the PRC’s rise, Chinese actions overwhelmingly serve to support the dollar. The RMB, a dollar alternative according to some, is as tightly pegged to the dollar as the Bahraini dinar. In their $2.1 trillion worth of reserves, the Chinese hold approximately three times as many dollars as all other currencies combined. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: I Got &#8216;Dem Ol Dollar Bill Blues Again, Mama! &#171; Around The Sphere</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-134531</link>
		<dc:creator>I Got &#8216;Dem Ol Dollar Bill Blues Again, Mama! &#171; Around The Sphere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-134531</guid>
		<description>[...] Notwithstanding the constant talk of the PRC’s rise, Chinese actions overwhelmingly serve to support the dollar. The RMB, a dollar alternative according to some, is as tightly pegged to the dollar as the Bahraini dinar. In their $2.1 trillion worth of reserves, the Chinese hold approximately three times as many dollars as all other currencies combined. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Notwithstanding the constant talk of the PRC’s rise, Chinese actions overwhelmingly serve to support the dollar. The RMB, a dollar alternative according to some, is as tightly pegged to the dollar as the Bahraini dinar. In their $2.1 trillion worth of reserves, the Chinese hold approximately three times as many dollars as all other currencies combined. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Setser: Follow the Money &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Is complaining about others’ protectionism protectionist?</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-124913</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Setser: Follow the Money &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Is complaining about others’ protectionism protectionist?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 01:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-124913</guid>
		<description>[...] of US reliance on China’s government for subsidized financing. China already has close to a trillion dollars of Treasury bonds. It isn’t unreasonable to think that if it bought another trillion it might think it should get a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of US reliance on China’s government for subsidized financing. China already has close to a trillion dollars of Treasury bonds. It isn’t unreasonable to think that if it bought another trillion it might think it should get a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dunnage</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-124252</link>
		<dc:creator>dunnage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 00:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-124252</guid>
		<description>I read the paper and hope you keep doing the excellent detective work.

China&#039;s currency, reserves:  What if the dollar remains strong?  And commodities return to the mean?  In other words the dollar is rebounding from years of depreciation and oil, soybeans, copper are still overpriced.  Oil was at $10/barrel a decade ago and I know that 2009 is not the first occurrence of Peak Oil in my lifetime. 
Really, the stuff is everywhere.  And ya, there really is an ocean of natural gas beneath our feet.  I also know you can make money with soybeans at $5.50/bushel rather than $15.  

Point is -- China&#039;s currency is not going to strengthen significantly.  Reserves for an indefinite time.  Yes, they will buy anything &quot;explicitly&quot; backed by U.S. -- thank Paulsen and crew for defining implicit as nada. When world economies begin to stabilize Chinese investment will go more into assets:  big time in US, but also anywhere with resources.  Note that while we send soldiers everywhere, the Chinese send businessmen and bankers ( like commercial bankers, we have them too, but nobody has noticed ).  Africa is a great example.

So to be a player we need a new batch of connecteds to run the investment banks and the Treasury.  Otherwise, China will helplessly watch us wallow.  Could Geithner&#039;s remarks on one day to China and the next to Japan told better who the new water boy is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read the paper and hope you keep doing the excellent detective work.</p>
<p>China&#8217;s currency, reserves:  What if the dollar remains strong?  And commodities return to the mean?  In other words the dollar is rebounding from years of depreciation and oil, soybeans, copper are still overpriced.  Oil was at $10/barrel a decade ago and I know that 2009 is not the first occurrence of Peak Oil in my lifetime.<br />
Really, the stuff is everywhere.  And ya, there really is an ocean of natural gas beneath our feet.  I also know you can make money with soybeans at $5.50/bushel rather than $15.  </p>
<p>Point is &#8212; China&#8217;s currency is not going to strengthen significantly.  Reserves for an indefinite time.  Yes, they will buy anything &#8220;explicitly&#8221; backed by U.S. &#8212; thank Paulsen and crew for defining implicit as nada. When world economies begin to stabilize Chinese investment will go more into assets:  big time in US, but also anywhere with resources.  Note that while we send soldiers everywhere, the Chinese send businessmen and bankers ( like commercial bankers, we have them too, but nobody has noticed ).  Africa is a great example.</p>
<p>So to be a player we need a new batch of connecteds to run the investment banks and the Treasury.  Otherwise, China will helplessly watch us wallow.  Could Geithner&#8217;s remarks on one day to China and the next to Japan told better who the new water boy is?</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Smelt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-124144</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Smelt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 06:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-124144</guid>
		<description>Nice material, thanks.  
Two points:
(1) Don&#039;t forget the fate of the U.S. $ is not just a bilateral decision between the U.S. and China.
(2) The U.S. has gained lots of low cost credit from China. Sounds good  but China has gained vertical integration into high value added proceses and markets, knowledgeable capital (as against just &quot;dumb&quot; money), and the ability to grow its industry far more rapidly and in a more sophisticated way than it could have through serving its domestic markets.  Can you spot the winner here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice material, thanks.<br />
Two points:<br />
(1) Don&#8217;t forget the fate of the U.S. $ is not just a bilateral decision between the U.S. and China.<br />
(2) The U.S. has gained lots of low cost credit from China. Sounds good  but China has gained vertical integration into high value added proceses and markets, knowledgeable capital (as against just &#8220;dumb&#8221; money), and the ability to grow its industry far more rapidly and in a more sophisticated way than it could have through serving its domestic markets.  Can you spot the winner here?</p>
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		<title>By: Counterpointer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-124127</link>
		<dc:creator>Counterpointer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 22:54:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-124127</guid>
		<description>I won&#039;t re-post.  My stuff is at Calculated Risk.

14 year China veteran.  

It&#039;s just not looking that great right about now.

C</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won&#8217;t re-post.  My stuff is at Calculated Risk.</p>
<p>14 year China veteran.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just not looking that great right about now.</p>
<p>C</p>
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		<title>By: K T Cat</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-124112</link>
		<dc:creator>K T Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 17:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-124112</guid>
		<description>Brad,

&quot;And perhaps it is because China hasn’t been buying dollars because it likes the dollar or because it likes US policy. It has been buying dollars because it has pegged to the dollar and runs a large current account surplus. Absent sustained hot money outflows, that implies ongoing Chinese purchases of foreign – and likely US – assets.&quot;

Assuming this is true, if I were the Chinese I&#039;d be getting very, very worried that the whole thing was spiralling out of control.  Back when the deficit was in the $150-$250B range, China could count on having a pretty major say in the strength of the auctions.  But as David HK noted, the enormous rise in the debt is giving nervous investors more power over China&#039;s holdings.  Pretty soon, their massive store of Treasuries will turn into a game of Russian Roulette where they squeeze the trigger every time a macroeconomic event occurs that might start the stampede.

I think that&#039;s the reason they&#039;re moving into short term loans.  Like everyone else, they want to be close to the door.

As for Mutually Assured Economic Destruction, I would rather be in their position than ours.  If a catastrophe occurs such as a US default, I&#039;d take their tough, self-reliant population over our culture of take-without-earning any day of the week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>&#8220;And perhaps it is because China hasn’t been buying dollars because it likes the dollar or because it likes US policy. It has been buying dollars because it has pegged to the dollar and runs a large current account surplus. Absent sustained hot money outflows, that implies ongoing Chinese purchases of foreign – and likely US – assets.&#8221;</p>
<p>Assuming this is true, if I were the Chinese I&#8217;d be getting very, very worried that the whole thing was spiralling out of control.  Back when the deficit was in the $150-$250B range, China could count on having a pretty major say in the strength of the auctions.  But as David HK noted, the enormous rise in the debt is giving nervous investors more power over China&#8217;s holdings.  Pretty soon, their massive store of Treasuries will turn into a game of Russian Roulette where they squeeze the trigger every time a macroeconomic event occurs that might start the stampede.</p>
<p>I think that&#8217;s the reason they&#8217;re moving into short term loans.  Like everyone else, they want to be close to the door.</p>
<p>As for Mutually Assured Economic Destruction, I would rather be in their position than ours.  If a catastrophe occurs such as a US default, I&#8217;d take their tough, self-reliant population over our culture of take-without-earning any day of the week.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-124111</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-124111</guid>
		<description>Michael -- no one is required to buy US fiscal debt anymore than they are required to buy Icelandic or russian debt.   It is sold in a market.   And the argument that the US debt crowds out others issuance seems thin when it can be sold at low rates.    Some debt is sold to the fed, which prints $ to buy treasuries as part of its standard monetary policy operations.  But if the rest of the world doesn&#039;t believe dollar denominated assets will hold value, they logically should stop trading their goods for US IOUs and instead demand payment in real US goods.    There are critiques of US policy that make sense, but the argument that the rest of the world is somehow compelled to finance bad US policies isn&#039;t one of them.   key countries choose to peg to the dollar at rates that generally speaking implied accumulation of reserve assets and thus lending funds back to the US.  Absent those policies, there would have been a different equilibrium.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael &#8212; no one is required to buy US fiscal debt anymore than they are required to buy Icelandic or russian debt.   It is sold in a market.   And the argument that the US debt crowds out others issuance seems thin when it can be sold at low rates.    Some debt is sold to the fed, which prints $ to buy treasuries as part of its standard monetary policy operations.  But if the rest of the world doesn&#8217;t believe dollar denominated assets will hold value, they logically should stop trading their goods for US IOUs and instead demand payment in real US goods.    There are critiques of US policy that make sense, but the argument that the rest of the world is somehow compelled to finance bad US policies isn&#8217;t one of them.   key countries choose to peg to the dollar at rates that generally speaking implied accumulation of reserve assets and thus lending funds back to the US.  Absent those policies, there would have been a different equilibrium.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2009/01/30/secrets-of-safe-a-trillion-or-close-of-treasuries-here-a-trillion-there-and-pretty-soon-you-are-talking-about-real-money/#comment-124110</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 16:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/?p=4528#comment-124110</guid>
		<description>David HK -- After China dumped its Agency portfolio (to be blunt and less than technical) this fall, I think the assumption that central banks are always stable, long-term investors can be questioned ...  though your broader point that in a world where not all issuance is absorbed by central banks there likely will be more day to day volatility strikes me as right.

Viktor.   China&#039;s dollar risk is fundamentally unhedgeable.   That is the risk that China&#039;s government has to bear to sustain a global system where the US runs a large deficit.   the only way china&#039;s government can reduce its risk (other than adjusting so it no longer runs a current account surplus) is by increasing domestic Chinese demand for dollars, so China&#039;s own citizens build up their foreign portfolio and take more dollar risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David HK &#8212; After China dumped its Agency portfolio (to be blunt and less than technical) this fall, I think the assumption that central banks are always stable, long-term investors can be questioned &#8230;  though your broader point that in a world where not all issuance is absorbed by central banks there likely will be more day to day volatility strikes me as right.</p>
<p>Viktor.   China&#8217;s dollar risk is fundamentally unhedgeable.   That is the risk that China&#8217;s government has to bear to sustain a global system where the US runs a large deficit.   the only way china&#8217;s government can reduce its risk (other than adjusting so it no longer runs a current account surplus) is by increasing domestic Chinese demand for dollars, so China&#8217;s own citizens build up their foreign portfolio and take more dollar risk.</p>
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